General Discussion

Proposed car corrections for PL7

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Comments

  • pmglfvpmglfv Member Posts: 95 ✭✭✭
    Pictures of the DS 3 Sport HDi 2016 and DS3 Convertible 2016 do not have the Citroen logo on the grille. These models date before 2014.

  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Member Posts: 495 ✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    So you discredit the Levante traction control claim due to an Evo article yet won’t use Evo figures for the 760RS? That makes little sense to me, it’s a one off special so you would expect the manufacturers figures to be used. What independent performance figures did you use for the Pagani? I can’t find anything on the web pointing to that performance, as far as I can see you’ve used the performance figures of the Huayra by mistake no?
    Yep, because we prioritise observed performance over claimed.

    From the Evo article, they are very clear about it:

    Meanwhile when we asked Evo for the performance figures to use in-game, they supplied what you currently see.

    I'm not quite sure what you mean referring to the Huayra, the figures are different?

    This kind of explains why the 964 RS is much faster than its power & torque figures suggest - Richard Meaden owns one and may have sexed it up a bit... 
  • TD01055TD01055 Member Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nel1978 said:
    That says the car is Rwd in the uk, I think all cars are based on uk spec
  • RysioRysio Member Posts: 392 ✭✭✭
    nel1978 said:

    And I can get a four-wheel drive E63 AMG in the UK?

    Only if you really want it. The packaging limitations of the E-class platform mean the four-wheel drive system can only be engineered for left-hand drive models, so if you want a 4MATIC E63 AMG you’ll have to ask your dealer nicely to import one specially.

    The upshot is that the UK is one of the few markets that’ll get the full-bore 577bhp S model in rear-wheel drive guise. It remains a very good car, but the 4MATIC model is great…

  • hajduk_fanhajduk_fan Member Posts: 203 ✭✭✭
    A lot of Mercedes cars need better research instead of just putting 155 as top speed. Many of those cars can go way higher but Mercedes always electronically limits their non-racing cars to 250km/h to prevent drivers to do stupid stuff at high speeds. I think it's little bit stupid to put that as it can easily be removed.
  • O__VERO__VER Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭
    rkoralle said:
    It is even more stupid to allow a limited car to run 160mph e.g. instead of 155 or the maximum Speed without the limiter
    I think it's more that official sources for the actual top speeds that these cars reach would be very hard to come by. We can say the BMW M5 would probably hit 200mph but when accuracy is at stake, who can say exactly what top speed it will hit?

    So the cars being able to go faster but using 155mph as a base point is likely a compromise due to the unavailability of accurate info.
  • hajduk_fanhajduk_fan Member Posts: 203 ✭✭✭
    I never said they should guess what top speed might be. I said they should do research because people tested some of those cars with limiter removed and all cars i was able to find hit higher speeds.
  • O__VERO__VER Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭
    I never said they should guess what top speed might be. I said they should do research because people tested some of those cars with limiter removed and all cars i was able to find hit higher speeds.
    I get that. I am saying that Hutch uses official information from trustworthy sources and it's difficult to find accurate information on what top speed cars reach without their limiter because it's mostly just some dude who owns one and tested it on a back road. You don't see car magazines and online publications testing cars with the limiter removed often.
  • 43MK443MK4 Member Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭✭
    Rysio said:
    nel1978 said:

    And I can get a four-wheel drive E63 AMG in the UK?

    Only if you really want it. The packaging limitations of the E-class platform mean the four-wheel drive system can only be engineered for left-hand drive models, so if you want a 4MATIC E63 AMG you’ll have to ask your dealer nicely to import one specially.

    The upshot is that the UK is one of the few markets that’ll get the full-bore 577bhp S model in rear-wheel drive guise. It remains a very good car, but the 4MATIC model is great…

    @Rysio can you find an example where we can really see an "S" model from 2015 which only has RWD? 
  • AvengedAvenged Member Posts: 288 ✭✭✭
    Hey Hutch, is there a drawn line separating Low from Medium? Yes, item no. 32 is gutting. It's what made the Z/28 so special. But if it has to be done, would you be able to share your yardstick? I.e. how do you decide for sure if a car is Low or Medium?
  • Nacho101Nacho101 Member Posts: 109 ✭✭✭

    I’m confused, why aren’t you using the figures they supplied you to use in the game?
    The performance figures (top speed, 0-60) in the game for the RS are that of the Huarya in real life is what I mean.  
    The figures supplied by Evo are 'claimed' figures - not Evo tested figures.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nacho101 said:

    I’m confused, why aren’t you using the figures they supplied you to use in the game?
    The performance figures (top speed, 0-60) in the game for the RS are that of the Huarya in real life is what I mean.  
    The figures supplied by Evo are 'claimed' figures - not Evo tested figures.
    I’m not sure what you’re getting at? Hutch claim that the figures used IG are basically from one test drive performed by EVO magazine, as far as the article based on the test drive goes the performance stats are never questioned, hence why I believe the IG performance stats are a mistake. 
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    43MK4 said:
    Rysio said:
    nel1978 said:

    And I can get a four-wheel drive E63 AMG in the UK?

    Only if you really want it. The packaging limitations of the E-class platform mean the four-wheel drive system can only be engineered for left-hand drive models, so if you want a 4MATIC E63 AMG you’ll have to ask your dealer nicely to import one specially.

    The upshot is that the UK is one of the few markets that’ll get the full-bore 577bhp S model in rear-wheel drive guise. It remains a very good car, but the 4MATIC model is great…

    @Rysio can you find an example where we can really see an "S" model from 2015 which only has RWD? 
    There.

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809030099609?make=MERCEDES-BENZ&year-from=2015&price-from=12000&aggregatedTrim=AMG S&postcode=wc2n5du&sort=sponsored&advertising-location=at_cars&drivetrain=Rear Wheel Drive&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&year-to=2015&model=E CLASS&radius=1500&page=1

    Can we put this topic to bed now?
  • 43MK443MK4 Member Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    43MK4 said:
    Rysio said:
    nel1978 said:

    And I can get a four-wheel drive E63 AMG in the UK?

    Only if you really want it. The packaging limitations of the E-class platform mean the four-wheel drive system can only be engineered for left-hand drive models, so if you want a 4MATIC E63 AMG you’ll have to ask your dealer nicely to import one specially.

    The upshot is that the UK is one of the few markets that’ll get the full-bore 577bhp S model in rear-wheel drive guise. It remains a very good car, but the 4MATIC model is great…

    @Rysio can you find an example where we can really see an "S" model from 2015 which only has RWD? 
    There.

    https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809030099609?make=MERCEDES-BENZ&year-from=2015&price-from=12000&aggregatedTrim=AMG S&postcode=wc2n5du&sort=sponsored&advertising-location=at_cars&drivetrain=Rear Wheel Drive&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&year-to=2015&model=E CLASS&radius=1500&page=1

    Can we put this topic to bed now?
    Looks like we have an RWD version here. Thanks!
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 332 admin
    I’m confused, why aren’t you using the figures they supplied you to use in the game?
    The performance figures (top speed, 0-60) in the game for the RS are that of the Huarya in real life is what I mean.  
    This is getting confusing, let me try to clear it up:

    760RS - from Evo, used in-game: 3.1 / 210
    760RS - claimed: 2.6 / 217

    Huayra - from Evo, used in-game: 3.2 / 224
    Huayra - "in real life": ?.? / ???

    So now we have two things to find:
    - Citation of the Huayra's performance (which I assume you're saying is 2.6 / 217)?
    - Independent verification of 760RS performance

    For the 760RS, it's true that 2.6s vs 3.1s is a surprising difference, I thought it would be a lot easier than this to find anyone verifying something close to 2.6s. I'll see if we can find out where 3.1s comes from.

    Regarding the Caterham RS Levante, I do think we have to apply slightly different standards when a car has a single-digit production run. If a mass produced car has faulty TC it's easy to believe it usually works. If the only 1 out of 8 made sent to a car magazine for testing doesn't have it working (and the vehicle is pushing the limits of their technology already), I can see why we'd want to be sure about it.

    O__VER said:
    rkoralle said:
    It is even more stupid to allow a limited car to run 160mph e.g. instead of 155 or the maximum Speed without the limiter
    I think it's more that official sources for the actual top speeds that these cars reach would be very hard to come by. We can say the BMW M5 would probably hit 200mph but when accuracy is at stake, who can say exactly what top speed it will hit?

    So the cars being able to go faster but using 155mph as a base point is likely a compromise due to the unavailability of accurate info.
    Yep, you're quite correct - it's much harder to get reliable top speeds for such cars, which is why we went with 155. This is also consistent with our rule-of-thumb to go with the performance of a car as-sold (which tires it has for example).

    It's also true that it's a bit odd that engine 'upgrades' increment this limit up by small amounts - that's just us applying the standard model for upgrades, but in my head I like to imagine these upgrades are actually bribes to the local authority allowing you to exceed the limit a little bit. We could arguably have engine upgrades for speed-limited cars just increase the 0-60 time and the MRA while maintaining the 155 limit I suppose? Still, if people can cite a reliable source for the 'true' top speed we could consider adjusting them.

    43MK4 said:

    Acc to all sources I checked, all 8 Levante models are equipped with TC from factory.

    No Levantes were delivered without TC.

    No Levantes were sold with TC system that is not working.

    Well that's ideal then! What are the sources?
  • TD01055TD01055 Member Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can you explain why the RS6 is seemingly unlimited? Was it one where you could get a source on the true top speed?
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nacho101 said:

    I’m confused, why aren’t you using the figures they supplied you to use in the game?
    The performance figures (top speed, 0-60) in the game for the RS are that of the Huarya in real life is what I mean.  
    The figures supplied by Evo are 'claimed' figures - not Evo tested figures.
    Evo regularly test the cars that are "on test" at bruntingthorpe (sp?) Including drags, in gear acceleration, and putting them on scales (including working out the weight balance).  It's not 100% clear which cars they do this for, I'm pretty certain it's not everything they test.
  • bobdylanbobdylan Member Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What do you want me to ask the levante owner ? 

    If it has traction or launch control or not ? 

    Any other questions ?
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bobdylan said:
    What do you want me to ask the levante owner ? 

    If it has traction or launch control or not ? 

    Any other questions ?
    Given that they only made 10 of them that seems more likely source than any magazine!!

    I dare say hutch would require more evidence than "jimbobs mate says so" though. Video of a TC light flickering on and off perhaps IDK.
  • 43MK443MK4 Member Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭✭
    bobdylan said:
    What do you want me to ask the levante owner ? 

    If it has traction or launch control or not ? 

    Any other questions ?
    @bobdylan yea it would be great if u know a Levante owner and could ask him about TC on that car. Currently ingame Levante has no TC since it was reported in one Evo article that it was not working the day when they tested it. Then we have plenty of other sources reporting that all Levantes are equipped with TC.
    So we would basically like to confirm that the Levante that Evo tested was just having some temporary issues with its TC which normally is fully functional.
  • bobdylanbobdylan Member Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Waiting on the answer .... don't actually  need traction control  looking at this WOW
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14
    Thanks for the feedback on the Pagani @Hutch_Tim at least you can have a look and see where the discrepancy comes in, for it to be arguably the most extreme Pagani released and have those figures doesn’t seem right. 
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