General Discussion

Late join thread1000

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  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Member Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    - Some brackets become trivially easily. Even with a less generous prize structure for lower trophy brackets, the bar to win a Legendary prize car would be very low. This is the main reason days of the late joining lottery are numbered - because prize cars should be earned.
    @Hutch_Robin I agree with the principle - I only do late joining because it’s a possibility, and because the prospect of seeing someone with a much weaker hand win a prize car by late joining while I miss out having fought for three days is pretty hard to stomach. As someone who is part P2W but tries to be mostly F2P, I have a reasonable garage, but can struggle in prize car events against people who throw money at the game. 

    This is is where I see a contradiction in what you’re suggesting. You say that prize cars are earned, but they can be won by people who haven’t played for long but are prepared to throw cash at the high number of event-specific CFs that are made available. In the meantime, people who have done exactly what you said and have earned the prize cars that they have over many months, are prevented from using those prize cars to win others, further skewing the game in favour of new P2W players versus long-standing F2P. 

    Can I please suggest that if you do reduce the impact of late joining, then you also review the use of prize cars, and the provision of specific CFs. The number of specific CFs should really be there to allow someone to supplement their existing hand, not build a competitive hand from scratch. Similarly, if (as you say) we’ve earned the prize cars that we have, we should be allowed to use them in Finals. That way, a high-spending newer joiner would not yet have the likes of a P1, 918 or similar, allowing long-standing F2P players to still compete. 
  • TimButTimBut Member Posts: 805 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17
    100% agree with prize car bans and all those offers game became totally oriented on new wallets

    and old players have to keep up by buying packs

    I still think that banbing prize cars from use in finals is a very dirty move.
  • jigajiga Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭✭
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
  • AvengedAvenged Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Member Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting that there’s only been about 2500 players joined the EU servers up till now. Looks like late joining is very popular. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
    Sure. But dont you get to use them in other events, qualif and prelims though?
  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Member Posts: 945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
    Sure. But dont you get to use them in other events, qualif and prelims though?
    Yes you do. As I said earlier, I wouldn’t have such an issue with prize cars being banned if the number of event specific CFs was reduced, to prevent people being able to buy a competitive hand from scratch. If you’re going to make 15 CFs available at each stage every time, then you should make prize cars useable in the final. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
    Sure. But dont you get to use them in other events, qualif and prelims though?
    Yes you do. As I said earlier, I wouldn’t have such an issue with prize cars being banned if the number of event specific CFs was reduced, to prevent people being able to buy a competitive hand from scratch. If you’re going to make 15 CFs available at each stage every time, then you should make prize cars useable in the final. 
    I see your point. I think the reason why they make 15 CFs available is for newer players to feel like they can have a chance, otherwise it would take them way too long to catch up and even have a shot at decent prizes. I would be ok with 5, 15 is just way too much.
  • jigajiga Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
    Sure. But dont you get to use them in other events, qualif and prelims though?
    Yes you do. As I said earlier, I wouldn’t have such an issue with prize cars being banned if the number of event specific CFs was reduced, to prevent people being able to buy a competitive hand from scratch. If you’re going to make 15 CFs available at each stage every time, then you should make prize cars useable in the final. 
    and screw all the people who lack the requisite prize cars and who can neither afford however many CFs nor win any in prelims or quals for lack of prize cars?

    I would most definitely bother myself no more with this foolish quest
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting that there’s only been about 2500 players joined the EU servers up till now. Looks like late joining is very popular. 

    It was a weird one in Asia. 1st Gen bracket never filed in 3 days. Not even close to filling.
  • O__VERO__VER Member Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    Interesting that there’s only been about 2500 players joined the EU servers up till now. Looks like late joining is very popular. 

    It was a weird one in Asia. 1st Gen bracket never filed in 3 days. Not even close to filling.
    It did seem to be high trophy players only (over 6000, or maybe even 8000?) which would suggest that active competitive Asian server players number in the low hundreds, not even remotely close to 1000 people.
  • 43MK443MK4 Member Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭✭✭
    O__VER said:
    RobGripes said:
    Interesting that there’s only been about 2500 players joined the EU servers up till now. Looks like late joining is very popular. 

    It was a weird one in Asia. 1st Gen bracket never filed in 3 days. Not even close to filling.
    It did seem to be high trophy players only (over 6000, or maybe even 8000?) which would suggest that active competitive Asian server players number in the low hundreds, not even remotely close to 1000 people.

    I joined myself US bracket for the qualifications and saw few guys that normally play on Asia
  • Destroyer2k11999Destroyer2k11999 Member Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭✭✭
    43MK4 said:
    O__VER said:
    RobGripes said:
    Interesting that there’s only been about 2500 players joined the EU servers up till now. Looks like late joining is very popular. 

    It was a weird one in Asia. 1st Gen bracket never filed in 3 days. Not even close to filling.
    It did seem to be high trophy players only (over 6000, or maybe even 8000?) which would suggest that active competitive Asian server players number in the low hundreds, not even remotely close to 1000 people.

    I joined myself US bracket for the qualifications and saw few guys that normally play on Asia
    Yep no doubt the Asian player base isn't necessarily smaller but they are venturing out to other regions and are becoming more competitive and sometimes dominant in the right brackets, I don't blame them, as far as I read on here the Asian server is pretty stale with the same winner at the top.
  • rei348rei348 Member Posts: 894 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't feel late join as a problem... For f2p is a small chance to win a prize car, for p2w players doesn't make any difference, they simply join the event since beginning.
    As f2p if you win with late join it may change your game. So far I won only the porsche carrera with a lucky , almost useless... 
    Small note about trophies: I'm slowly going up (currently 9500), I gave up considering those in my game. They are too easy to get and too hard to lower compared to the rewards. As an example, yesterday I "won" 125 trophies for tier1 in prize camaro event and tier3 in qualifiers. Rewards? 3 C food and gold. This rewards will increase my garage strenght? no, not even "equivalent" to 10-20 trophies, and I got 125. If I'll drop to bottom in the next 13 events (-10 each) I'd be able to remove them, losing all the spirit of racing for 3 weeks or so...

  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 2,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 20
    TD42792 said:
    Avenged said:
    jiga said:
    I would have thought it fairly obvious why prize cars should not be allowed in finals.  In a lot of cases previous prize car winners would have a huge advantage over players who have not been able to win them previously.  Those who haven't been able to win them previously would face an ever more insurmountable task.

    As someone with very few prize cars and none of the key ones like P1 or 787B i regularly suffer the huge advantage their owners have over me in other events and often enough in prelims and qualifiers.  I would love to have that advantage.
    Concurring with Jiga. As someone who was never lucky enough to get any S tier cars and thus could never win a prize car, to have to deal with handfuls of them in major finals would just be another mountain to climb.

    I understand what you’re saying, but see it from the point of view of those of us who’ve managed to grind out some prize cars over more than a year, but then don’t get to use them, and instead get hammered by some new player willing to open their wallet for every CF on offer. 
    Sure. But dont you get to use them in other events, qualif and prelims though?
    you do, but stock they don't help much. even legendaries are often dominated nowadays by maxed ones. so if you start upgrading a trophy car you pretty much have to be ready to finish it and there're only a few I can justify that for what is at stake outside of the finals. so the use of prize cars is a bit limited indeed. 
    however I understand hutch's dilemma and hope the new club thing will give them more use.
  • AvengedAvenged Member Posts: 356 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    jiga said:
    I do agree though that prize cars should have more use.  I can accept their use in quals and prelims no problems - thanks to no prize cars in finals i might one day be able to use one there too.  I think there should be some sort of prestige event say once a month with multiple CFs for top tier and the event designed to make a variety of prize cars viable options for a best deck.
    This is how I see it as well. Allowing prize cars in prize car finals would make the life of most F2P hell. I think it was a good call from Hutch. At least now we, mere mortals, have a slight chance, given the right set of requirements, to be competitive. But the question of "what are prize cars good for" remains unanswered still. I think Hutch should find them some kind of satisfying use other than the regular events or challanges we have. Right now the effort you have to put into getting a prize car is just so much bigger than the benefits of having one.
    Question - Should a prize car be, by far and beyond, better than its non-prize counterparts?

    If yes, then therein lies the problem of getting a dominating car but not being able to use it. But arguably worth the crazy effort when useable.

    If no, then it would allow Hutch to allow prize cars in big events without having to worry about balancing the power dynamics between players. But some would say it isn't worth the effort to get them.

    Frankly I'd like it if prize cars were great in specific areas but not all-round dominance. One way to do this would be to keep prize cars to A or even B tier and below. They could be fantastic A or B cars but people with (non-prize) higher tier cars could still strategise to beat them. But they themselves give you the advantage of having a very powerful lower RQ car, so that you free up RQ for a bigger non-prize car, as compared to the guys who need to use a bigger non-prize car to even counter your prize A or B. And as for effort, well, you still get an advantage if you whale hard. Just not an unsurpassable advantage.

    Just my $0.02.
  • MoogMoog Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭
    Or make prize cars available in packs 6/12/18 months after they're awarded.
  • TimButTimBut Member Posts: 805 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just need to rework points system, make drag results like with allseason cars when maxed legendary/epic car wins only 50 pts vs Ultra rare.

    Some p1 or 918 should not win more than 50 pts vs any other legendary racing car (not some panameras).  Such cars breaks the balance and gives a huge advantage to owners. If they were always to win only 50pts, they would still give advantage, but kinda acceptable to not ban them from events. 

    Anyway, whatever we say here - the decision was made, TD launched money train and nothing with prize cars would change.  
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The disparity in points awarded for wins over the various track sets doesn’t make much sense, you win by 3 seconds on one set, you lose 60pts, another set you could lose 150pts for the same margin. 
    Surely a victory should award 50pts then something like an additional point for every 10th of a second after across all sets. 
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some tracks are longer than others though so you naturally get bigger wins on longer tracks. Game the system and prioritise your faster cars on tracks that score more points.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As far as prize cars go I think they should be allowed in finals, a large percentage of them would make little difference anyway.
    If you’re a new player that isn’t buying a large percentage of packs or an existing f2p, imho you shouldn’t really be winning many of the prize cars.
    If you’re f2p, at the end of the day you’ve made that choice and should cut your cloth accordingly, use the grind to improve your garage and maybe get them on the re-run. I’ve missed out on loads of prize cars, am I bothered? Not really, as I don’t expect to compete with people that put money into the game. 🤷🏼‍♂️
  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The disparity in points awarded for wins over the various track sets doesn’t make much sense, you win by 3 seconds on one set, you lose 60pts, another set you could lose 150pts for the same margin. 
    Surely a victory should award 50pts then something like an additional point for every 10th of a second after across all sets. 
    Well if you win by 3 seconds on a 1/4 mile drag, that's not the same as winning by 3 seconds on a track that's 2-3 minutes long. I don't think there's a problem with that. The points gained or lost are determined by the ratio of your opponent's and your finishing times. Of course it's easier to win by a bigger ratio at some tracks than others, that's part of the strategy.
  • RawelRawel Member Posts: 789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    The disparity in points awarded for wins over the various track sets doesn’t make much sense, you win by 3 seconds on one set, you lose 60pts, another set you could lose 150pts for the same margin. 
    Surely a victory should award 50pts then something like an additional point for every 10th of a second after across all sets. 
    Well if you win by 3 seconds on a 1/4 mile drag, that's not the same as winning by 3 seconds on a track that's 2-3 minutes long. I don't think there's a problem with that. The points gained or lost are determined by the ratio of your opponent's and your finishing times. Of course it's easier to win by a bigger ratio at some tracks than others, that's part of the strategy.
    No amount of strategizing can save you in let's say 90s event if you don't have something like a gt90 or f1 to put on a drag
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    The disparity in points awarded for wins over the various track sets doesn’t make much sense, you win by 3 seconds on one set, you lose 60pts, another set you could lose 150pts for the same margin. 
    Surely a victory should award 50pts then something like an additional point for every 10th of a second after across all sets. 
    Well if you win by 3 seconds on a 1/4 mile drag, that's not the same as winning by 3 seconds on a track that's 2-3 minutes long. I don't think there's a problem with that. The points gained or lost are determined by the ratio of your opponent's and your finishing times. Of course it's easier to win by a bigger ratio at some tracks than others, that's part of the strategy.
    I don’t think there’s much strategy involved in it tbh aside from picking the track that is unbalanced for the win, it would make for more even results and closer competition if the same pts ratio was used for every track set. 
  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rawel said:
    Ozzman said:
    The disparity in points awarded for wins over the various track sets doesn’t make much sense, you win by 3 seconds on one set, you lose 60pts, another set you could lose 150pts for the same margin. 
    Surely a victory should award 50pts then something like an additional point for every 10th of a second after across all sets. 
    Well if you win by 3 seconds on a 1/4 mile drag, that's not the same as winning by 3 seconds on a track that's 2-3 minutes long. I don't think there's a problem with that. The points gained or lost are determined by the ratio of your opponent's and your finishing times. Of course it's easier to win by a bigger ratio at some tracks than others, that's part of the strategy.
    No amount of strategizing can save you in let's say 90s event if you don't have something like a gt90 or f1 to put on a drag
    Yeah but that's that not the fault of the points being awarded as they are, but the lack of variety in cars, or the not so carefully constructed event tracksets.
  • kaje73kaje73 Member Posts: 138 ✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    rei348 said:
    I don't feel late join as a problem... For f2p is a small chance to win a prize car, for p2w players doesn't make any difference, they simply join the event since beginning.
    As f2p if you win with late join it may change your game. So far I won only the porsche carrera with a lucky , almost useless... 
    Small note about trophies: I'm slowly going up (currently 9500), I gave up considering those in my game. They are too easy to get and too hard to lower compared to the rewards. As an example, yesterday I "won" 125 trophies for tier1 in prize camaro event and tier3 in qualifiers. Rewards? 3 C food and gold. This rewards will increase my garage strenght? no, not even "equivalent" to 10-20 trophies, and I got 125. If I'll drop to bottom in the next 13 events (-10 each) I'd be able to remove them, losing all the spirit of racing for 3 weeks or so...

    From observation, as a median, events that are trophy limited generally start at 6k, sometimes 3k, very rarely 0. 8k not often and it made the qualifier ridiculously hard for f2p above that limit, not just the fact all the big players were squashed into 2 little brackets, but there was no chance other brackets opening (for AS).

    Anyhow got off the point a bit there...

    What I’m trying to say is, if you’re 9k+ now, you’ve passed the point of no return, and dropping a meagre 120 trophies over 12 events is hard slogging for zero gain. You might as well keep climbing now and reside as an equal amongst your fellow plankton friends.
    Agreed. I passed 6k a while ago (now ~17k) and find it very difficult to compete in prize car events. As a f2p I have zero fuses in my legendaries. Where I can compete is the lower quality events as I’ve focused on building a broad garage at UR and below. So that’s where I’ve set my expectations. Smurf the daily; compete/smurf regular events (depending on how the event suits my garage); try and get lucky in the tougher events (eg current prelims I’m bouncing between t2 and t3 due to lack of legendary fuses). 
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