General Discussion

Registration phase

SchmidtiSchmidti Member Posts: 48 ✭✭
I'm not sure if this idea poped up already but the way how the last finals took place, gave me something to think about. 
(late enrty and so on) 

My suggestion is to make a registration pase 2 days befor the event starts. Everyone who registers will be put in a bracket starting from the first minute of the event. A manual entry is not possible. 

To easy things up i propose to do this only in big events like a tri-series or a other event where you can win a prize car. "Normal" events should stay the way they are. 

What do you think about that idea? 
«1

Comments

  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6
    what do you guys think about that:

    see the first two days as some kind of qualifying (like IRL race sport). after those 48h everybody gets regrouped by their score (from the leaderboard not trophy score) and in a way the brackets are filled up by something like 400/500, so late joiners still could hop in. 

    that should lead to about equal difficult brackets. After the regrouping I would suggest to halve the score, so those who played from the beginning successful still have an advantage but it isn't that huge that players who only can join on sunday still can easily catch up with the right deck.

    I and I think others too would use the first day for farming and testing, the second day for scoring and the third day for winning. 
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    what do you guys think about that:

    see the first two days as some kind of qualifying (like IRL race sport). after those 48h everybody gets regrouped by their score and in a way the brackets are filled up by something like 400/500, so late joiners still could hop in. 

    that should lead to about equal difficult brackets. After the regrouping I would suggest to halve the score, so those who played from the beginning successful still have an advantage but it isn't that huge that players who only can join on sunday still can easily catch up with the right deck.

    I and I think others too would use the first day for farming and testing, the second day for scoring and the third day for winning. 
    But the first 2 days everyone would just smurf as long and as low as possible to get put in the weaker brackets for the final day would they not? Unless you mean the top half of the brackets gets put in with the lower half of another bracket for the final day?
    Im not having a go at people trying to solve what is a major issue, but they all seem to be over complicated for what is an easy problem to solve on the face of it. 
  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6
    what do you guys think about that:

    see the first two days as some kind of qualifying (like IRL race sport). after those 48h everybody gets regrouped by their score and in a way the brackets are filled up by something like 400/500, so late joiners still could hop in. 

    that should lead to about equal difficult brackets. After the regrouping I would suggest to halve the score, so those who played from the beginning successful still have an advantage but it isn't that huge that players who only can join on sunday still can easily catch up with the right deck.

    I and I think others too would use the first day for farming and testing, the second day for scoring and the third day for winning. 
    But the first 2 days everyone would just smurf as long and as low as possible to get put in the weaker brackets for the final day would they not? Unless you mean the top half of the brackets gets put in with the lower half of another bracket for the final day?
    Im not having a go at people trying to solve what is a major issue, but they all seem to be over complicated for what is an easy problem to solve on the face of it. 
    yes, someone who was at the bottom would get placed in the new bracket with someone who was at the top and so on.
  • SchmidtiSchmidti Member Posts: 48 ✭✭
    A registration event with a small price is also possible. 
    If you payed that smal event you are automatically placed in the bigger closed event from the beginning... 
  • MettitiMettiti Member Posts: 1,680 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Registration would work , but, it would alienate casual plsyers, which I would guess are a sizeable chunk of the plsyerbase
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Member Posts: 552 ✭✭✭✭
    For tri-series events, players could basically be seeded based on their finishing positions in each round. That way if you can only manage tier 3 in the prelim, you won’t have to face T1 winners in the final. 

    Could also open up a whole different strategy in the earlier rounds, like not even entering, but then having a disadvantage in the finals.

    just a thought, probably would cause loads of other problems 
  • greddygreddy Member Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    edited November 6
    Only fair solution would be one bracket per server. That would automatically eliminate late join advantage and also no one could complain about easy/hard brackets. At the moment we have tier 1 for first 8 (1.6%), so if 10 000 players join eu bracket, first 160 get tier 1 etc. Same goes for asian and american bracket. 

    Everyone will try to join as soon as possible and casual players will have chance for participation
  • DeserTDeserT Member Posts: 443 ✭✭✭✭
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Registration period seems to extreme to me, better to just Close the ability to join with X hours left in the event.

    I'd like to attach one more addition, 4 tickets must be played at least 6 hours from the end. 
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    greddy said:
    Only fair solution would be one bracket per server. That would automatically eliminate late join advantage and also no one could complain about easy/hard brackets. At the moment we have tier 1 for first 8 (1.6%), so if 10 000 players join eu bracket, first 160 get tier 1 etc. Same goes for asian and american bracket. 

    Everyone will try to join as soon as possible and casual players will have chance for participation

    I thought about this, it is like a poker tournement. The lsrge it gets, the prizes expand accordingly.

    The question is are hutch able to overcome tech issues with having several thousand players in one group
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    Why not reduce bracket size instead for final from 500 to 300 like the prelim? That way there are more chances for prize car, the p2w are more spread out, hopefully evenly.

    Or you could have a bracket cut off, say after 24hours from bracket creation, the bracket will close no matter the size. So for late joiners, if 500 people decide to join the last half hour... well good luck.

    Anyways just thoughts.
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    edited November 8
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    Not much Hutch can do about it, they can’t force people to join an event. What most people have figured out is if you join early, you hit whale town and you get squashed, no prize car, no dignity, so what’s the incentive of ever joining early? If there is even a remote chance that you could avoid the big shots, that’s how you would strategise and play. I dare say most people on this forum who aren’t p2w have done it, a last min roll of the dice to get an empty bracket.

    The problem stems from (particularly acute in the Asian server) of not having a large enough player pool, and particularly highlighted from the last tri-series, players above 6000 trophies. And unfortunately the biggest losers are those stuck between the p2w players and that arbitrary 6k mark. We are too good for our own good.

    Pre-registration could work if there was one global server thus an expanding the player pool. If that was the case then, you could do it this way:

    1. Players are pre-registered not for a bracket, but an end time. 
    2. 3-4 different end times to choose from, so you would pick which end time would best suit you as an individual. You choose end-time starting from 48hrs before event start.
    3.prizes given out once last event end-time has expires.





  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 372 admin
    I've been analysing event entry times for all finals events.

    It's true that later brackets are on average a little easier to win than the earliest ones, but it's more even than you might expect - players with stronger hands are quite effectively spreading themselves out over the different shards. Grandvache is correct that at the end, in most cases, the 'cream rises to the top', especially since we introduced that extra +3 points for each win, so suddenly entering a bracket with a score close to 0 doesn't put you high up the leaderboard. There's also a somewhat interesting trade-off that the later you enter, the less time you have to figure out if it's worth fusing your cars.

    I do share LittleEnosBurdette's concern that we could get to a feedback loop where more and more players enter late, making earlier brackets harder, encouraging even more players to enter later next time. We do see slightly more players entering later, but it's a slow effect over many months. Also a very significant amount of bracket difficulty is how many less-strong / low-RQ players enter at different times, and that doesn't change that much.

    Regarding the Mitsubishi event we just had, those brackets did fill very slowly - and it was because of the 5x Mitsubishi requirement. Late entry was slightly more prevalent than recently, but the overall total number of players that entered was much lower than recent Finals. I saw people referring back to the 'Diamond Club' event we had a few months back for reference; that event had a 4x Mitsubishi requirement, but much more significantly it was split into different versions by RQ, with lower RQ players facing easier requirements. Comparing entry to that event vs this one by RQ, and to other recent Finals events, it's very clear that the lower player numbers (and higher level of competition) was due to much fewer lower RQ players qualifying.

    In terms of how we might mitigate these sorts of problems, a couple of points:
    - Registration-only, especially registration with a fee, is extremely likely to create leaderboards that mostly just have competitive players!
    - It would be helpful if you could enter with very few (or even none) of the specified manufacturer, but the more you can use, the better a chance you have. Bonus points don't help us do that (as they're only good if you win a challenge); some kind of event-specific RQ-modifier might work though.
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:

    In terms of how we might mitigate these sorts of problems
    - It would be helpful if you could enter with very few (or even none) of the specified manufacturer, but the more you can use, the better a chance you have. Bonus points don't help us do that (as they're only good if you win a challenge); some kind of event-specific RQ-modifier might work though.
    Bonus points could work if they also applied to defence as well
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Can anyone explain the rq modifier concept to me please?

  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    Not much Hutch can do about it, they can’t force people to join an event. What most people have figured out is if you join early, you hit whale town and you get squashed, no prize car, no dignity, so what’s the incentive of ever joining early? If there is even a remote chance that you could avoid the big shots, that’s how you would strategise and play. I dare say most people on this forum who aren’t p2w have done it, a last min roll of the dice to get an empty bracket.

    The problem stems from (particularly acute in the Asian server) of not having a large enough player pool, and particularly highlighted from the last tri-series, players above 6000 trophies. And unfortunately the biggest losers are those stuck between the p2w players and that arbitrary 6k mark. We are too good for our own good.

    Pre-registration could work if there was one global server thus an expanding the player pool. If that was the case then, you could do it this way:

    1. Players are pre-registered not for a bracket, but an end time. 
    2. 3-4 different end times to choose from, so you would pick which end time would best suit you as an individual. You choose end-time starting from 48hrs before event start.
    3.prizes given out once last event end-time has expires.





    I think you missed my point entirely. 
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    I've been analysing event entry times for all finals events.

    It's true that later brackets are on average a little easier to win than the earliest ones, but it's more even than you might expect - players with stronger hands are quite effectively spreading themselves out over the different shards. Grandvache is correct that at the end, in most cases, the 'cream rises to the top', especially since we introduced that extra +3 points for each win, so suddenly entering a bracket with a score close to 0 doesn't put you high up the leaderboard. There's also a somewhat interesting trade-off that the later you enter, the less time you have to figure out if it's worth fusing your cars.

    I do share LittleEnosBurdette's concern that we could get to a feedback loop where more and more players enter late, making earlier brackets harder, encouraging even more players to enter later next time. We do see slightly more players entering later, but it's a slow effect over many months. Also a very significant amount of bracket difficulty is how many less-strong / low-RQ players enter at different times, and that doesn't change that much.

    Regarding the Mitsubishi event we just had, those brackets did fill very slowly - and it was because of the 5x Mitsubishi requirement. Late entry was slightly more prevalent than recently, but the overall total number of players that entered was much lower than recent Finals. I saw people referring back to the 'Diamond Club' event we had a few months back for reference; that event had a 4x Mitsubishi requirement, but much more significantly it was split into different versions by RQ, with lower RQ players facing easier requirements. Comparing entry to that event vs this one by RQ, and to other recent Finals events, it's very clear that the lower player numbers (and higher level of competition) was due to much fewer lower RQ players qualifying.

    In terms of how we might mitigate these sorts of problems, a couple of points:
    - Registration-only, especially registration with a fee, is extremely likely to create leaderboards that mostly just have competitive players!
    - It would be helpful if you could enter with very few (or even none) of the specified manufacturer, but the more you can use, the better a chance you have. Bonus points don't help us do that (as they're only good if you win a challenge); some kind of event-specific RQ-modifier might work though.
    Can you share the entry figures for the Mitsubishi final event in the EU with us? I’d be genuinely interested to see how many people did join late (last 3 hours) if the first 4000 entrants took 69hrs to fill the brackets. 
    Imho anyone joining with 3 hours to go doesn’t deserve the prize car, it’s as simple as that, but how many did, 16? 32? 64?
    Is closing the event entry X hours before event ends not an option?
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 372 admin
    RobGripes said:
    Can anyone explain the rq modifier concept to me please?

    There's a few ways it could work - most obvious being (say) Mitsubishi's have lower RQ's in the event (by a % or a fixed amount) + lower RQ limit overall, or non-Mitsubishi's have an extra RQ penalty to use (by a % or a fixed amount).

    I think you missed my point entirely. 
    Oh, I thought I addressed your most important point, the potential for a feedback loop on late entry. I guess you mean the thing about the 6k trophy bracketing on the prelims? I didn't address that because it's just the same thing we've always said: in every event but Finals, we vary sharding by RQ and trophies in different ways to avoid having a permanent 'bracket of death' (e.g. reach 6k trophies and then only ever face everyone with 6k+ trophies forever). Some events will be harder, some will be easier.
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    Not much Hutch can do about it, they can’t force people to join an event. What most people have figured out is if you join early, you hit whale town and you get squashed, no prize car, no dignity, so what’s the incentive of ever joining early? If there is even a remote chance that you could avoid the big shots, that’s how you would strategise and play. I dare say most people on this forum who aren’t p2w have done it, a last min roll of the dice to get an empty bracket.

    The problem stems from (particularly acute in the Asian server) of not having a large enough player pool, and particularly highlighted from the last tri-series, players above 6000 trophies. And unfortunately the biggest losers are those stuck between the p2w players and that arbitrary 6k mark. We are too good for our own good.

    Pre-registration could work if there was one global server thus an expanding the player pool. If that was the case then, you could do it this way:

    1. Players are pre-registered not for a bracket, but an end time. 
    2. 3-4 different end times to choose from, so you would pick which end time would best suit you as an individual. You choose end-time starting from 48hrs before event start.
    3.prizes given out once last event end-time has expires.





    I think you missed my point entirely. 
    No I think I understood what you’re trying to say. The truth is there is no “right way” to win. People will do what they think will give them the best shot at the prize and play accordingly. If that mean early joiners like you are feed to the sharks then that’s exactly what they are hoping for. From your perspective it’s not fair or fun, for another that’s just tactics.

    The second half of my post I was trying to address the basis of the issue of late joiners and prize distribution, and I narrow that down to limited player base.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8
    Ultimate said:
    Ultimate said:
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    Not much Hutch can do about it, they can’t force people to join an event. What most people have figured out is if you join early, you hit whale town and you get squashed, no prize car, no dignity, so what’s the incentive of ever joining early? If there is even a remote chance that you could avoid the big shots, that’s how you would strategise and play. I dare say most people on this forum who aren’t p2w have done it, a last min roll of the dice to get an empty bracket.

    The problem stems from (particularly acute in the Asian server) of not having a large enough player pool, and particularly highlighted from the last tri-series, players above 6000 trophies. And unfortunately the biggest losers are those stuck between the p2w players and that arbitrary 6k mark. We are too good for our own good.

    Pre-registration could work if there was one global server thus an expanding the player pool. If that was the case then, you could do it this way:

    1. Players are pre-registered not for a bracket, but an end time. 
    2. 3-4 different end times to choose from, so you would pick which end time would best suit you as an individual. You choose end-time starting from 48hrs before event start.
    3.prizes given out once last event end-time has expires.





    I think you missed my point entirely. 
    No I think I understood what you’re trying to say. The truth is there is no “right way” to win. People will do what they think will give them the best shot at the prize and play accordingly. If that mean early joiners like you are feed to the sharks then that’s exactly what they are hoping for. From your perspective it’s not fair or fun, for another that’s just tactics.

    The second half of my post I was trying to address the basis of the issue of late joiners and prize distribution, and I narrow that down to limited player base.
    I don’t early join and I’m certainly no food for the sharks, don’t fool yourself into thinking late joining is a master tactic or anything as it isn’t. The longer this trend continues and the longer nothing is done about it, the harder it’ll be for everyone, apart from the whales of course. 
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    Ultimate said:
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    Not much Hutch can do about it, they can’t force people to join an event. What most people have figured out is if you join early, you hit whale town and you get squashed, no prize car, no dignity, so what’s the incentive of ever joining early? If there is even a remote chance that you could avoid the big shots, that’s how you would strategise and play. I dare say most people on this forum who aren’t p2w have done it, a last min roll of the dice to get an empty bracket.

    The problem stems from (particularly acute in the Asian server) of not having a large enough player pool, and particularly highlighted from the last tri-series, players above 6000 trophies. And unfortunately the biggest losers are those stuck between the p2w players and that arbitrary 6k mark. We are too good for our own good.

    Pre-registration could work if there was one global server thus an expanding the player pool. If that was the case then, you could do it this way:

    1. Players are pre-registered not for a bracket, but an end time. 
    2. 3-4 different end times to choose from, so you would pick which end time would best suit you as an individual. You choose end-time starting from 48hrs before event start.
    3.prizes given out once last event end-time has expires.





    I think you missed my point entirely. 
    No I think I understood what you’re trying to say. The truth is there is no “right way” to win. People will do what they think will give them the best shot at the prize and play accordingly. If that mean early joiners like you are feed to the sharks then that’s exactly what they are hoping for. From your perspective it’s not fair or fun, for another that’s just tactics.

    The second half of my post I was trying to address the basis of the issue of late joiners and prize distribution, and I narrow that down to limited player base.
    I don’t early join and I’m certainly no food for the sharks, don’t fool yourself into thinking late joining is a master tactic or anything as it isn’t. The longer this trend continues and the longer nothing is done about it, the harder it’ll be for everyone, apart from the whales of course. 
    Never said it was a master tactic, but I can understand why people use it.
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    That I would 100% agree with.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 1,681 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DeserT said:
    I don’t see it possible to put thousands of players in one bracket, for many practical reasons. Also the solutions suggested earlier seem too complicated and there are very easy ways to exploit them. 

    Let’s first define what is “late”? Last day, last 3 hours or last 5 minutes? In my opinion what needs to be eliminated completely is the latter, when 5 races in a fluke bracket give people (with random hands) the opportunity to get trophy cars. The easiest way to solve this has been suggested many times, restrict joining to at least couple hours before the event ends.  
    It's a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  I've done late entry a couple of times, the cream still rises.  Prize car winners still have decent hands, garbage hands rarely take home the chicken dinner.  

    The incidence of people entering with 5 rare cars and getting the prize car in a bracket of 8 people is surely very rare indeed.

    @Hutch_Tim  can you get us some data on this? My gut tells me the community is disproportionately worked up about super late entry.
    Personally it’s not the fact that people with very poor or mediocre hands are winning prize cars that I have issue with as you’re probably right about the stats, although it is still annoying when you here about it. 
    The issue I have is it seems that as time has passed more and more people are taking that chance, meaning more brackets are probably created at the end of an event than at the beginning where brackets are filling incredibly slowly, condensing all the people that try to win the “right way’ into them, thus making it harder for the likes of myself and easier for late joiners. 
    Last weeks never filling prelim brackets with the 6000 trophy cap idea and only 8 open EU brackets in the final up till 3 hours of a 72 hr event are simply a joke. 
    Unfortunately Hutch don’t seem to want to give any clarification on it. 
    That I would 100% agree with.
    Finally! we agree on something! 😉
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