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Cayenne Turbo (S?) - testing and fixing

2

Comments

  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dont even understand from where you guys got the idea that they would change the durangos stats thus giving you a (probably) free epic lol
  • mauro07mauro07 Member Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    I dont even understand from where you guys got the idea that they would change the durangos stats thus giving you a (probably) free epic lol
    as compansation of all this bugs!! :D :D :D
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    I dont even understand from where you guys got the idea that they would change the durangos stats thus giving you a (probably) free epic lol
    From me.  :D :D

    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/98322/#Comment_98322
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    Huskic69 said:
    I dont even understand from where you guys got the idea that they would change the durangos stats thus giving you a (probably) free epic lol
    From me.  :D :D

    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/98322/#Comment_98322
    I take my words back, free epic for everyone :D
  • CharlieRCharlieR Member Posts: 464 ✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Steph81 said:
    TNThomas said:
    Steph81 said:
    The easiest and best Way is always to adjust the Name and picture. 
    That why I say ''very unlikely though'' and " ;) ", so I don't understand your point...
    I dont even see that very unlikely chance. 
    Changing the stats and improve it to a B or even A class, would be one of the worst mistakes for this game...

    I have to agree with Steph, even though I have two Durangos, and would be very happy to see them turn into epics. But that would be unfair, because by now many players have collected multiple Durangos, and many have still not pulled a single one. And it's not like it was meant to be an epic, it's a super rare, the chances of getting it was like any other super rare, so there's no reason to feel disappointed if it stays as it is, just with a different name and photo.
    Do you guys suggest to fix unfairness by doing injustice?

    terms of service:

    http://www.hutchgames.com/terms-of-service/

    players have the right to use the virtual item for 5 years.  Now what determines what the item is? Dodge Durango SRT and Porsche Turbo S are not just names it's the title of the licence users own, this is binding. If hutch changes the title they would change what is most basic for the nature of the item.

    Buying/opening packs is technically speaking nothing else but buying a ticket for the tombola. If the organizer of this tombola gets knowledge that some of his prizes are in fact not as advertised he has to take immediate action to clarify! Otherwise the organizer would be guilty of raising wrong expectations! If hutch wants the Durango SRT to change to SXT or whatever, they would have to act right away but in fact this car is still part of the prize pool.

    Same with the Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. If hutch wants to downgrade this one to a Porsche Cayenne Turbo they must act right away and not after giving it out and selling CFs! Hutch could do so, but I guess it sells better with the "S".

    Also it's very questionable how it was possible to get those cars wrong in first spot. As mentioned before it takes only one minute to check and see the stats don't fit! From here this does not look like a simple mistake but can only be explained by negligence or intent. I don't see any other explanation, sorry. Someone from hutch stuff has claimed before that it takes very long to create a new car or longer than we think. If it takes so long why not taking this one extra minute to google and see that the numbers are off? NOT explainable to me!

    And that's why I expect hutch to take full responsibility for both cars and coming up with a clear and satisfying communication instead of nerving what players legally own.
    OMG!  Better call Saul now! 
  • TNThomasTNThomas Member Posts: 497 ✭✭✭
    Damn @hillclimber, nice job! I am really curious what @Hutch_Tim would say about your comment.
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have to agree with @Ozzman

    The value of any given car in this game (if value is even the right term) is based on its classification.  With that being said, regardless of what the title is on the card, a C class is a C class.    These cars were not presented as Epic or Ultra Rare.  They were mislabeled, plain and simple.  I agree that it is an oversight that seemingly could have been easily avoided with a small amount of research, but I do not pretend to know what goes into an update in this game and how a mistake like that is made.  I do know that mistakes happen.  For all we know, people could have been fired or demoted for this.  Some poor lad could be out of a job because he mislabeled a virtual car in an app and customers are mad because a virtual Durango was given the wrong image and moniker. 

    I have the car and I would love for it to be upgraded to a higher class.  Mainly so I could land a freeby.  However, No one was promised something or purchased (opened in a pack) something that they did not get. 



  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gsearch said:
    I have to agree with @Ozzman

    The value of any given car in this game (if value is even the right term) is based on its classification.  With that being said, regardless of what the title is on the card, a C class is a C class.    These cars were not presented as Epic or Ultra Rare.  They were mislabeled, plain and simple.  I agree that it is an oversight that seemingly could have been easily avoided with a small amount of research, but I do not pretend to know what goes into an update in this game and how a mistake like that is made.  I do know that mistakes happen.  For all we know, people could have been fired or demoted for this.  Some poor lad could be out of a job because he mislabeled a virtual car in an app and customers are mad because a virtual Durango was given the wrong image and moniker. 

    I have the car and I would love for it to be upgraded to a higher class.  Mainly so I could land a freeby.  However, No one was promised something or purchased (opened in a pack) something that they did not get. 



    Maybe that poor lad needs to be out of a job tho  :p
    This isn't the first mistake or the last of many mistakes, this company needs to start paying more attention to what they release in this game along with testing the cars before releasing physics changes. 
  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15
    Ozzman said:

    I understand your point of view, but the terms of service does not specify what exactly determines an item. 

    unfortunately you didn't get my point most likely because you don't understand the meaning of the words "name" and "title" in a legal context. for your understanding please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_(property)
    while the title determines what the item is, the stats define what the item can do (in minimum) e.g. 0-60 in 5.0s

    In our case the name of the virtual item is Dodge Durango SRT or Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. Also we know that we have the right to use the item for the next 5 years. So the contract says: You have the right to use the Durango SRT / Cayenne Turbo S for the next 5 years. If hutch changes now the name that's a one sided change of contract!

    Ozzman said:

    And one more thing, would you feel the same if it was the other way round, honestly? If the name and picture would suggest a regular Durango, but the stats would be of an SRT, would you like it to be demoted to a super rare, even if you had it maxed? I don't think so.

    honestly, that would be very disappointing. If you order in real life a car at your local dealer he should deliver as the contract says. Title and stats have to fit. If not it must never be to the customers disadvantage.

    Ozzman said:

    We see (and take advantage of) cars moving up or down in rarity with almost every major update, that's not a new thing. But we're talking about C to A here, which is a game changer for most people (especially if you have more than one of this car), it's not as easy as "changing the stats, and that's it".

    Personally I don't really care if my 2 Durangos are SR or epic. Probably i will not win the Cayenne since I will most likely choose to invest my resources differently. What I fight against is hutch taking away something from us players illegitimate.

    Gsearch said:
    The value of any given car in this game (if value is even the right term) is based on its classification. 

    by the logic of this statement hutch could replace every legendary you own with a Panamera Turbo, every Epic you own with a Audi S4, and so on.

    Gsearch said:
    They were mislabeled, plain and simple.  I agree that it is an oversight that seemingly could have been easily avoided with a small amount of research, but I do not pretend to know what goes into an update in this game and how a mistake like that is made.  I do know that mistakes happen. 
    I agree, making a mistake is not a problem. I screw up almost every day. but letting others pay for it by cutting their legal rights is a different animal. Also if I make a mistake I apologize by using the word "sorry" but I do not see any appropriate communication from hutch here. so I do not see any reason why I should give up the rights I have.

    Gsearch said:
    For all we know, people could have been fired or demoted for this.  Some poor lad could be out of a job because he mislabeled a virtual car in an app and customers are mad because a virtual Durango was given the wrong image and moniker.  

    that would be brutal! and that's how the gaming industrie rolls. some might have heard of the game Red Dead Redemption 2, do you also know how it was made? https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/employees-at-rockstar-games-worked-100-hours-per-week-to-finish-red-dead-redemption-2-thats-amazing-depressing-infuriating-all-at-once.html
    If you want to work in the gaming industrie you have to be ready to perform, because 10 others are waiting in front of the door to do your job better and faster. Employees know that when they sign up.
    Post edited by hillclimber on
  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 372 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:

    I understand your point of view, but the terms of service does not specify what exactly determines an item. 

    unfortunately you didn't get my point most likely because you don't understand the meaning of the words "name" and "title" in a legal context. for your understanding please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_(property)
    while the title determines what the item is, the stats define what the item can do (in minimum) e.g. 0-60 in 5.0s

    In our case the name of the virtual item is Dodge Durango SRT or Porsche Cayenne Turbo S. Also we know that we have the right to use the item for the next 5 years. So the contract says: You have the right to use the Durango SRT / Cayenne Turbo S for the next 5 years. If hutch changes now the name that's a one sided change of contract!

    Ozzman said:

    And one more thing, would you feel the same if it was the other way round, honestly? If the name and picture would suggest a regular Durango, but the stats would be of an SRT, would you like it to be demoted to a super rare, even if you had it maxed? I don't think so.

    honestly, that would be very disappointing. If you order in real life a car at your local dealer he should deliver as the contract says. Title and stats have to fit. If not it must never be to the customers disadvantage.

    Ozzman said:

    We see (and take advantage of) cars moving up or down in rarity with almost every major update, that's not a new thing. But we're talking about C to A here, which is a game changer for most people (especially if you have more than one of this car), it's not as easy as "changing the stats, and that's it".

    Personally I don't really care if my 2 Durangos are SR or epic. Probably i will not win the Cayenne since I will most likely choose to invest my resources differently. What I fight against is hutch taking away something from us players illegitimate.

    Gsearch said:
    The value of any given car in this game (if value is even the right term) is based on its classification. 

    by the logic of this statement hutch could replace every legendary you own with a Panamera Turbo, every Epic you own with a Audi S4, and so on.

    Gsearch said:
    They were mislabeled, plain and simple.  I agree that it is an oversight that seemingly could have been easily avoided with a small amount of research, but I do not pretend to know what goes into an update in this game and how a mistake like that is made.  I do know that mistakes happen. 
    I agree, making a mistake is not a problem. I screw up almost every day. but letting others pay for it by cutting their legal rights is a different animal. Also if I make a mistake I apologize by using the word "sorry" but I do not see any appropriate communication from hutch here. so I do not see any reason why I should give up the rights I have.

    Gsearch said:
    For all we know, people could have been fired or demoted for this.  Some poor lad could be out of a job because he mislabeled a virtual car in an app and customers are mad because a virtual Durango was given the wrong image and moniker.  

    that would be brutal! and that's how the gaming industrie rolls. some might have heard of the game Red Dead Redemption 2, do you also know how it was made? https://www.inc.com/john-brandon/employees-at-rockstar-games-worked-100-hours-per-week-to-finish-red-dead-redemption-2-thats-amazing-depressing-infuriating-all-at-once.html
    If you want to work in the gaming industrie you have to be ready to perform, because 10 others are waiting in front of the door to do your job better and faster. Employees know that when they sign up.


    Are you a lawyer or something? :D

    Ok, so if you say that it's the name of the item that matters, then I guess it would be perfectly fine, if Hutch just changed all Porsche 911 Turbos' stats (the epic and legendary ones) to match the RQ21 version. You say you have the right to use a 911 Turbo, well which one? Names are not necessarily unique. Name and stats... well also not necessarily, but much closer to it. If the name and the stats don't match what do you do? You either change one or the other. But which one? That's a tough decision, and you have to be very careful and take many things into consideration. I think that's what they're doing.

    And you haven't really answered the question if you would also fight for your rights this hard if it was the other way round. :)

    Let's be honest some of us just want free epics, and some of us also care about the impact it would have on the game. I also have two Durangos, but I don't want to face five of them in an offroad event, knowing how my opponent acquired them.

  • GsearchGsearch Member, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:

    I understand your point of view, but the terms of service does not specify what exactly determines an item. 

    unfortunately you didn't get my point most likely because you don't understand the meaning of the words "name" and "title" in a legal context. for your understanding please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_(property)
    while the title determines what the item is, the stats define what the item can do (in minimum) e.g. 0-60 in 5.0s


    First, the insults are not necessary.  If you can not have a reasonable discussion without insulting someone, stop posting your arguments.

    Second, you seem to be mixing actual vehicles with a virtual products.  NONE of these cars have to match what it's real world counterpart could or would do. No more than you being able to throw your Angry Bird at some pig's building in your town. That is not promised anywhere in any Hutch writings.

    You won't get a Pikes Peak Suzuki for the price of a Jag S type, even though they have the same "in game" currency value.

    My point about the employee was to demonstrate the lack of seriousness in a virtual car being mislabeled vs. real life stuff and that I feel that some are making a bigger deal out of things than necessary.

    And last, in quoting the TOS, you may want to review it in it's entirety.  Particularly Section 21 item 2.    The section clearly state that as an exclusion of liability, Hutch will not be liable to you for " any technical, factual, textual or typographical inaccuracies, errors or omissions.

    With that being said, I always hope that Hutch does what needs to be done to fix errors in the game in the fairest way possible, and there are plenty of them.





  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 372 ✭✭✭
    Gsearch said:
    Ozzman said:

    I understand your point of view, but the terms of service does not specify what exactly determines an item. 

    unfortunately you didn't get my point most likely because you don't understand the meaning of the words "name" and "title" in a legal context. for your understanding please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_(property)
    while the title determines what the item is, the stats define what the item can do (in minimum) e.g. 0-60 in 5.0s


    First, the insults are not necessary.  If you can not have a reasonable discussion without insulting someone, stop posting your arguments. 
    huh? I'm not aware of any insult. @Ozzman did you felt insulted? @Gsearch please tell me to understand in what you see as the insult.


    Gsearch said: 

    Second, you seem to be mixing actual vehicles with a virtual products.  NONE of these cars have to match what it's real world counterpart could or would do. No more than you being able to throw your Angry Bird at some pig's building in your town. That is not promised anywhere in any Hutch writings.
    I'm not mixing anything because I agree on this point. while the title is binding and must not be changed, a correction of stats can only be requested to make the virtual item match the real life counterpart. I never claimed anything else.

    Gsearch said:
    You won't get a Pikes Peak Suzuki for the price of a Jag S type, even though they have the same "in game" currency value. 
    sorry really can't follow your argumentation.

    Gsearch said:

    My point about the employee was to demonstrate the lack of seriousness in a virtual car being mislabeled vs. real life stuff and that I feel that some are making a bigger deal out of things than necessary.
    I heard you and that was an important information! my point was about the gaming industry in general being rough. 

    Gsearch said:

    And last, in quoting the TOS, you may want to review it in it's entirety.  Particularly Section 21 item 2.    The section clearly state that as an exclusion of liability, Hutch will not be liable to you for " any technical, factual, textual or typographical inaccuracies, errors or omissions.
    but that's not a freepass for negligence. as mentioned before it would have taken only one minute to check those cars and see that there is something wrong. also if hutch knows already now that the Cayenne Turbo S will be changed to a Cayenne Turbo it's not okay to let the finals still run under the name Turbo S. 

    Gsearch said:

    With that being said, I always hope that Hutch does what needs to be done to fix errors in the game in the fairest way possible, and there are plenty of them. 
    I hope that too because I want hutch to be successful, but not at the cost of my rights. at least not without a proper communication.
    To be fair, no I did not feel insulted. I don't think there is a problem with the discussion here.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That will teach you to call someone a lawyer!
  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Gsearch said:
    Ozzman said:

    I understand your point of view, but the terms of service does not specify what exactly determines an item. 

    unfortunately you didn't get my point most likely because you don't understand the meaning of the words "name" and "title" in a legal context. for your understanding please read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_(property)
    while the title determines what the item is, the stats define what the item can do (in minimum) e.g. 0-60 in 5.0s


    First, the insults are not necessary.  If you can not have a reasonable discussion without insulting someone, stop posting your arguments. 
    huh? I'm not aware of any insult. @Ozzman did you felt insulted? @Gsearch please tell me to understand in what you see as the insult.


    Gsearch said: 

    Second, you seem to be mixing actual vehicles with a virtual products.  NONE of these cars have to match what it's real world counterpart could or would do. No more than you being able to throw your Angry Bird at some pig's building in your town. That is not promised anywhere in any Hutch writings.
    I'm not mixing anything because I agree on this point. while the title is binding and must not be changed, a correction of stats can only be requested to make the virtual item match the real life counterpart. I never claimed anything else.

    Gsearch said:
    You won't get a Pikes Peak Suzuki for the price of a Jag S type, even though they have the same "in game" currency value. 
    sorry really can't follow your argumentation.

    Gsearch said:

    My point about the employee was to demonstrate the lack of seriousness in a virtual car being mislabeled vs. real life stuff and that I feel that some are making a bigger deal out of things than necessary.
    I heard you and that was an important information! my point was about the gaming industry in general being rough. 

    Gsearch said:

    And last, in quoting the TOS, you may want to review it in it's entirety.  Particularly Section 21 item 2.    The section clearly state that as an exclusion of liability, Hutch will not be liable to you for " any technical, factual, textual or typographical inaccuracies, errors or omissions.
    but that's not a freepass for negligence. as mentioned before it would have taken only one minute to check those cars and see that there is something wrong. also if hutch knows already now that the Cayenne Turbo S will be changed to a Cayenne Turbo it's not okay to let the finals still run under the name Turbo S. 

    Gsearch said:

    With that being said, I always hope that Hutch does what needs to be done to fix errors in the game in the fairest way possible, and there are plenty of them. 
    I hope that too because I want hutch to be successful, but not at the cost of my rights. at least not without a proper communication.
    To be fair, no I did not feel insulted. I don't think there is a problem with the discussion here.
    thank you!

    I admit I feel emotional about this topic because to me it's not manly about those two cars but about how things are handled in this matter. it was really never my intention to offend you in anyway, in fact I highly appreciated the dialogue with you.
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
  • TimButTimBut Member Posts: 142 ✭✭✭
    in case with Durango I'm okay with the rename, as I am all against rarity change, especially to A class. it's just unfair when you might get 1-3 free fully upgraded A class cars and new players or those who haven't them will have to upgrade it with their B cars. 

    But with Cayene renaming I'm mad at Hutch. Only because there are still damn S in the event name. It is like "fight for the Nissan Gtr" and then "oh sorry, it is not legendary gtr, it is super rare skyline actually, we will change the name". 
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    My car picture is better than your car picture. 
  • mikesmikes Member Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    My car picture is better than your car picture. 
    My car picture cost me more than yours.
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15
    I apologize for saying that it was an insult .  I misread the "in legal context" part. I see that there was neither an insult nor any intent to insult.
  • mikesmikes Member Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gsearch said:
    I apologize for saying that it was an insult .  I misread the "in legal context" part. I see that there was neither an insult nor any intent to insult.
    OH YEAH? YOU'RE A LEGAL CONTEXT!
  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gsearch said:
    I apologize for saying that it was an insult .  I misread the "in legal context" part. I see that there was neither an insult nor any intent to insult.
    okay, all cool no problem. 
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,123 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree with the entire "title" argument.   The title of each item is virtually irreverent in my opinion.   The only relevant factor here is stats. The stat of the item are what determines the use of the car in the game, not what it is called.
    For the sake of car buffs, I understand the frustrations of the picture or name of the vehicle being incorrect, but those are simply that, frustrations.  The name and picture have zero effect on what the item is actually used for.  

    Error and negligence are two different things.  You can say "all they had to do was..." but that simply suggests that you have what you believe to be a better method of doing something.  There is no "intent" in any of this.  With that, 21-2 does apply in that both of those cars clearly fall under "technical, factual, textual or typographical inaccuracies" and the TOS clearly states that Hutch can not be held liable.





  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    for a f2p that's easier to say than for a p2w. if you have spend a fair amount of money you'd like to know what you own.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mikes said:
    HeissRod said:
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    My car picture is better than your car picture. 
    My car picture cost me more than yours.
    Ha!  Sucker!
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 1,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    for a f2p that's easier to say than for a p2w. if you have spend a fair amount of money you'd like to know what you own.
    you own some rectangles filled with pixels and overlayed with some random numbers they've thrown randomly in
  • joel24joel24 Member Posts: 487 ✭✭✭
    mikes said:
    HeissRod said:
    Huskic69 said:
    i think that we all should really start to be less serious about this game in general, at the end of the day you are just fighting over a car picture
    My car picture is better than your car picture. 
    My car picture cost me more than yours.
    Mine costs even more.
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