General Discussion

Teamwork: Good or bad?

ZaphodZaphod Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
I was thinking about setting up a discussion about this already last week, and since there was quite heated exchange on the matter in the events thread I thought I'd do it now.

There's been a lot of discussion in the events threads about players teaming up by agreeing not to battle against each other and instead only racing against people outside those teams to push those players down. In the more extreme cases this has involved people intentionally losing races to teammates to push them up the leaderboard, and then racing against other people to push them down. In some events this way forum users have managed to create a lockdown of the top reward tier positions and pushed other users out. While one can argue about the morality if this it's something that the game allows and therefore cannot really be labeled as cheating.

Personally I'm not a fan of it. By definition the events in Top Drives are individual competitions and people teaming up can cause non-teamed up players to gain significantly worse rewards than they should (not only are they left behind the people teaming up, but that also puts them closer to other players who can then overtake them.

This seemed to raise quite strong responses in the other thread so PLEASE try to keep it civil.
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Comments

  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Did you even read the other thread?
  • ZaphodZaphod Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    I browsed it through and saw comments on both sides of the argument. However, I think it's something that warrants it's own thread.
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Member Posts: 462 ✭✭✭
    edited February 12
    While I completely agree that there's nothing wrong with not attacking people you know, forum friends etc, I think what what's annoyed a couple of people on here is.

    1) targeting of specific players.
    2) deliberately losing to friends to bump them up.

    For point 1 if that person has targeted you or a friend then they're completely fair game. If however they are just a random player who's playing normally then I'm not sure. Imagine if you were playing a game and then got targeted by people for no reason and couldn't fight back due to sheer numbers? That's the argument some are trying to put across.

    For point 2 I find this also a bit of a grey area as it's up to each individual how they want to play the game and spend their money and while it may be possibly going against the spirit of competition so is smurfing and we've come to accept that now.

    I know I've benefited from help from forum players myself in certain event and would help others when in a position to do so and am not going to say anyone is in the wrong for doing anything.
    It's just interesting to try and see points of view from each side. 
    This is in no way trying to tell people what to do or how to play.

    Ps 
    Please still help me if we're in the same group @Bugatti and others lol
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no point in even going into a discussion about this here seriously with all the drama lol

    There is about 10% here that don't agree and will not help and don't want help.

    Then there is 90% here that will gladly help other players here get into the top with them. 

    What else is there to really know or say ?
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    teamwork. It's important.
    That's it. No debate.
    I'll let you decide whether it is suitable for this scenario, but if it's me, I'd never say no.
    Teamwork is important in life, it's an essential skill to have. If you can't learn to be compassionate to other people
    then you're uncompassionate.
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    This forum is here to discuss TopDrives things, so yes it makes sense to discuss this topic here. The more people are discouraged to post opinions or questions, the less relevant this forum becomes.
    Also, because the (vocal) majority think it is ok, it does not make it right. Imagine the history of humanity if prevailing opinions, political parties or practices had never been challenged.

    Now that this is cleared, regarding the topic at hand, I have already mentioned it in the past and will re-iterate the fact that I am not really in support of such practices. Of course I have myself coordinated with other forum players in events, or benefited from not being hit here and there, but I do think it was always in a moderate manner, where a certain player was not unduly targeted or particularly picked on.

    A group of people coordinating to attack a single weaker player is pretty much the definition of bullying. Almost more importantly in my mind, it is not fair play. This is a game and I find it fun to try and beat my opponents by using a strategy. I really would not enjoy getting a prize that was handed to me because a forum buddy bumped me intentionally with a weaker hand.
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    This forum is here to discuss TopDrives things, so yes it makes sense to discuss this topic here. The more people are discouraged to post opinions or questions, the less relevant this forum becomes.
    Also, because the (vocal) majority think it is ok, it does not make it right. Imagine the history of humanity if prevailing opinions, political parties or practices had never been challenged.

    Now that this is cleared, regarding the topic at hand, I have already mentioned it in the past and will re-iterate the fact that I am not really in support of such practices. Of course I have myself coordinated with other forum players in events, or benefited from not being hit here and there, but I do think it was always in a moderate manner, where a certain player was not unduly targeted or particularly picked on.

    A group of people coordinating to attack a single weaker player is pretty much the definition of bullying. Almost more importantly in my mind, it is not fair play. This is a game and I find it fun to try and beat my opponents by using a strategy. I really would not enjoy getting a prize that was handed to me because a forum buddy bumped me intentionally with a weaker hand.
    What you say might be right... actually.
    I think, now, that players should all have their teams, so they don't get picked on like outsiders.
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd rather be hated for helping others then to be selfish and take prizes for myself. No need to say more on my part. 

    I am sure when it comes to clubs, people are gonna look back on this and decide who to pick and not too. 
    Nobody is gonna want to pick a person that doesn't want to help. So show your true colors now and let them fly  ;)
  • ZotZeZotZe Member Posts: 828 ✭✭✭✭
    I think hutch also likes our teamwork and the forum family, or how do you explain the actual FAMILY Trip event?

    Let's behave like a big family, take out your big cars out of the garage and let's have a nice trip together. Prost! 
  • mikesmikes Member Posts: 2,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All I have to say is that it's impossible for a multiplayer game to be a solo mission. The very essence of a multiplayer game is that your success/failure relies fully on the actions of others. Is it a personal choice to work with others? Yes. But to succeed it always helps to have allies.
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    mikes said:
    All I have to say is that it's impossible for a multiplayer game to be a solo mission. The very essence of a multiplayer game is that your success/failure relies fully on the actions of others. Is it a personal choice to work with others? Yes. But to succeed it always helps to have allies.
    I think I agree. But I will also draw the line where I see things getting out of proportion. A little help here and there, not to hit someone I know, etc. sure. But I would not continuously hit one specific guy to help out a "buddy" if that buddy real should not be able to win.
    Now, does that situation happen a lot? Probably not.
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    mikes said:
    All I have to say is that it's impossible for a multiplayer game to be a solo mission. The very essence of a multiplayer game is that your success/failure relies fully on the actions of others. Is it a personal choice to work with others? Yes. But to succeed it always helps to have allies.
    I think I agree. But I will also draw the line where I see things getting out of proportion. A little help here and there, not to hit someone I know, etc. sure. But I would not continuously hit one specific guy to help out a "buddy" if that buddy real should not be able to win.
    Now, does that situation happen a lot? Probably not.
    I think I missed something, I thought it was just about teaming up. Has there been a case of bullying? I don't think anyone here is attacking specific players over and over again just to p*** them off (only remember that Kyryl guy Bugatti was attacking, after he posted weird things on the ingame forums)

    I for myself tend to attack the same person all the time, when he's the highest threat to me or keeps attacking me.
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 12
    I do have a couple on my poo list, 
    But, lets go ahead and create a topic now that says
    "Poo list, right or wrong" 
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bottom line is I will use my gold to defeat my enemies and I will use my gold to help my friends real simple there ain't no rules here it's as simple as that
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 3,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We do what we want, and ranters stop moaning. It's our money, our decision how to spend it, whether helping friends or taking revenge.
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    And sure, I do the same too, hit the biggest threat the hardest possible.
    Here we are talking about coordinated attacks though. I think there are probably many different scenarios, but one I can think of is for instance, there are 5 spots to get the top prize, top 6 players are 5 forum people and 1 non-forum (“X”). Now let’s say that out of the 5 forum people, 4 have a better hand than X, but not the last one. You can see it developping that the 4 better players will hit X continuously, either on purpose or just because they do not want to hit their buddies.
    Player X will not get the prize, just because the other ones “teamed up”. If I was X and knew or learned about it I would probably stop playing, especially if I had spent gold or money to craft a better hand. Equally, if I was the forum guy with the weaker hand, I would not actually enjoy getting the prize because I was “helped” by my buddies, when I can see X clearly has a better hand.
    Again, not sure this happens a lot, and it is clearly not forbidden by any game rule, so to each his own, this is a mobile multiplayer game after all. But I know where I stand.
  • BubblegumBubblegum Member Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    All working to Hutch's plan.

    Friends burning tickets with money to help lesser friend beats better hands.

    Better hands with no friends spend more money determined not to be push over.

    Winner - Hutch. 
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All we are doing here is talking about whether spending gold is okay or not give me a break :D
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I mean we might as well make a thread that says is spending thousands on the game and having a bunch of legendaries fair or not
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 948 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    And sure, I do the same too, hit the biggest threat the hardest possible.
    Here we are talking about coordinated attacks though. I think there are probably many different scenarios, but one I can think of is for instance, there are 5 spots to get the top prize, top 6 players are 5 forum people and 1 non-forum (“X”). Now let’s say that out of the 5 forum people, 4 have a better hand than X, but not the last one. You can see it developping that the 4 better players will hit X continuously, either on purpose or just because they do not want to hit their buddies.
    Player X will not get the prize, just because the other ones “teamed up”. If I was X and knew or learned about it I would probably stop playing, especially if I had spent gold or money to craft a better hand. Equally, if I was the forum guy with the weaker hand, I would not actually enjoy getting the prize because I was “helped” by my buddies, when I can see X clearly has a better hand.
    Again, not sure this happens a lot, and it is clearly not forbidden by any game rule, so to each his own, this is a mobile multiplayer game after all. But I know where I stand.
    I get your point, but thats actually not bullying. The guy in position 6 will most likely get attacked to increase the gap to the Top5, until another guy passes him. Thats the same when I'm not teamed up, I attack the guy closest to me to keep the point advantage.
    Bullying would be, if I still keep attacking that guy even after he fell back, and maybe even drop positions to stay in range of that guy to drop him even more.
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @bugatti That is already included in every other post...
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 951 ✭✭✭✭
    The conversation is redundant.  An advantage can be gained by working together therefore people will do it.  That's before you consider that man is a social animal and ALWAYS forms teams.

    The only way you can prevent it entirely is to remove any form of communication between players, and that's not going to happen.

    Like it or not it's part of the meta game and no reasoned debate (from the OP) hand wringing, pearl clutching or bitching about it (not suggesting that's from the OP) is going to change that.
  • mauro07mauro07 Member Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭✭
    theory of games.. teamwork can give a win win... so why not? if you have a good hand you can win with help, if you have the worst hand of league you cannot win..
    in mercedes event, i was attacked only from one guy, 5th him and 6th me... i push down 9th because i wanna stay in silver tier.. and this genius attack me  and not the players in bronze tier or 8th.. i did all the work forsilver tier and he killed me and my prizes...
    so if i find player from forum and i can help... i try to help with no attacks and pushing down others..
  • daGmandaGman Member Posts: 934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why’s everyone gotta hate working as a team? Makes life more fun and can accomplish more. And please stop comparing working together as bullying. If your hand loses to everyone above you then you get dropped because your hand isn’t good enough. Simple as that. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 965 ✭✭✭✭
    The conversation is redundant.  An advantage can be gained by working together therefore people will do it.  That's before you consider that man is a social animal and ALWAYS forms teams.

    The only way you can prevent it entirely is to remove any form of communication between players, and that's not going to happen.

    Like it or not it's part of the meta game and no reasoned debate (from the OP) hand wringing, pearl clutching or bitching about it (not suggesting that's from the OP) is going to change that.
    Sure, but we also have a choice in our decisions. I am not going to target someone specifically because he is not on the forums. I am happy to not hit someone I know but I will not put all my wins on a particular player when I am in the lead, etc.
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