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Audi R8 V10 Minus

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  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    TomTurbo said:
    Hilarious...so broken!
    Yesterday it lost to a GT90 in fast circuit (a Concept car from the 90's!!), then it lost fast circuit to a NSX, and now I see it losing by a big margin to the 12C even on WET asphalt...you gotta be kidding me..

    Was it 0-150 wet? I had the same earlier, ridiculous. 
    Yes, was 0-150 wet, just been too slow/fast taking the screenshot.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 454 ✭✭✭
    TomTurbo said:
    TomTurbo said:
    Hilarious...so broken!
    Yesterday it lost to a GT90 in fast circuit (a Concept car from the 90's!!), then it lost fast circuit to a NSX, and now I see it losing by a big margin to the 12C even on WET asphalt...you gotta be kidding me..

    Was it 0-150 wet? I had the same earlier, ridiculous. 
    Yes, was 0-150 wet, just been too slow/fast taking the screenshot.

    I didn’t take a screenshot unfortunately but this is how my R8 is fused and still got my **** handed to me by a 1 star 12C. :neutral:
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 9
    TomTurbo said:
    TomTurbo said:
    Hilarious...so broken!
    Yesterday it lost to a GT90 in fast circuit (a Concept car from the 90's!!), then it lost fast circuit to a NSX, and now I see it losing by a big margin to the 12C even on WET asphalt...you gotta be kidding me..

    Was it 0-150 wet? I had the same earlier, ridiculous. 
    Yes, was 0-150 wet, just been too slow/fast taking the screenshot.

    I didn’t take a screenshot unfortunately but this is how my R8 is fused and still got my **** handed to me by a 1 star 12C. :neutral:
    Feels like they ordered a trainee to adjust the stats for the R8....
    Post edited by TomTurbo on
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Matt @Hutch_Demorphic @Hutch_Robin someone care to elaborate on the “new data”? 15 wasted epics is nothing to sneeze at...
    i dunno... Probably they would just blow this over and pretend nothing happened...
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 454 ✭✭✭
    edited February 10
    @Hutch_Matt @Hutch_Demorphic @Hutch_Robin someone care to elaborate on the “new data”? 15 wasted epics is nothing to sneeze at...
    Actually, by me quoting you I may have inadvertently notified the same Hutch people as you which makes me just as bad. 
  • DannyDanny Member Posts: 172 ✭✭✭
    edited February 11
    @Hutch_Matt @Hutch_Demorphic @Hutch_Robin someone care to elaborate on the “new data”? 15 wasted epics is nothing to sneeze at...
    Actually, by me quoting you I may have inadvertently notified the same Hutch people as you which makes me just as bad. 
    But I just wanted... to reply to you... ah ****... there goes the notification to them again....
    Post edited by Gsearch on
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 201 ✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Matt @Hutch_Demorphic @Hutch_Robin someone care to elaborate on the “new data”? 15 wasted epics is nothing to sneeze at...
    Are you crazy? You can’t just go tagging Hutch staff to sort major game issues, whatever next. 
    someone said cough tagging?
  • Ofirm84Ofirm84 Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    Mettiti said:
    You know it's painful to see no response to this 
    This hurts more, trust me...
    Taken from today's Formula "Fun" event. Apparently they decided to make the 303 second to the 033.
    So next time you tune an Audi make sure it's 033, that is until the next update where they will "fix" it again...



  • CometDanCometDan Member Posts: 557 ✭✭✭
    Looks like another example of the bug where Hutch have needed examples. Hopefully this is very near to the top of their 'To do' list. @Ofirm84 I would post this in the bugs thread for them to look at. Its an expensive pastime to fuse all these cars into the wrong upgrades.
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Ofirm84 said:
    Mettiti said:
    You know it's painful to see no response to this 
    This hurts more, trust me...
    Taken from today's Formula "Fun" event. Apparently they decided to make the 303 second to the 033.
    So next time you tune an Audi make sure it's 033, that is until the next update where they will "fix" it again...



    Audi RS6 with 033 tune always beat the 303 in city street and short drags (they will draw at 1 mile) even before patch, thats why I did it 033.
    A 12C at 1.3/2.3/1.3 also beats a 2.3/1.3/1.3 in drags
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    There's been 2 threads wirh times for them, can't find the 2nd though.

    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/24299#Comment_24299
  • Ofirm84Ofirm84 Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    Add Fast Circuit to the “033 obviously” box please...
    I guess Hutch pearl of wisdom for this update is definitely go 033 with Audis.

  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    Ofirm84 said:
    Add Fast Circuit to the “033 obviously” box please...
    I guess Hutch pearl of wisdom for this update is definitely go 033 with Audis.

    Only on rolling start if I remember correctly
  • bobdylanbobdylan Member Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭✭
    Outrageous.  

    But if we buy enough carbonfibers we can have three of each and every car in every setting in every car and then every time they change them at will , we will all be laughing and it won't even matter.  


    (This comment was sponsored by hutch) 
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    As I can't remember, here's the times for 033 tune on the fast circuit

    standing start (chapter 2, France 7)


    Rolling start (chapter 2, France 5)


  • Ofirm84Ofirm84 Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    303 standing start:

    303 rolling start:

    @TomTurbo can you stop with this defense? something has changed, the 033 never was that all mighty and more versatile than the 303 on so many tracks. here’s just a small list:
    Fast circuit (rolling)
    Fast circuit (standing) 
    1/4 mile 
    1/2 mile 
    City streets
    G-force (most probably as well)
    And by the looks of it other tracks for sure.
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 188 admin
    edited February 13
    Just to say, the question over the R8's performance is noted, I've added checking those matchups to the ongoing corrections list.

    On the subject of upgrades, on straights it should always be that 330 > 303 and that 330 > 033, obviously. Since grip doesn't come into it, it's much more ambiguous which would win out of 303 and 033, as it largely depends on how big weight upgrades are vs. engine.  As soon as corners come into it (e.g. in any Circuit) I would wouldn't be surprised to see 033 take the edge over 303.

    Edit: I said the opposite of what I meant right at the end there!
    Post edited by Hutch_Tim on
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Ofirm84 said:
    303 standing start:

    303 rolling start:

    @TomTurbo can you stop with this defense? something has changed, the 033 never was that all mighty and more versatile than the 303 on so many tracks. here’s just a small list:
    Fast circuit (rolling)
    Fast circuit (standing) 
    1/4 mile 
    1/2 mile 
    City streets
    G-force (most probably as well)
    And by the looks of it other tracks for sure.
    I'm not defending anything in any way, I just wanted to tell you how it was in the past that 033 vs 303 hasn't changed with any update (abd I know 100% for city street and drag times)...and since I couldn't remember for fast circuit, I thought I'd help you with times, but it's ok I'll just shut up....


    On a side note, drag times haven't changed at all with latest updates (except for cars with performance changes), and we ( @daGman & me) compared the drag times on the 033/303 RS6 after the update.
  • Ofirm84Ofirm84 Member Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    TomTurbo said:
    Ofirm84 said:
    303 standing start:

    303 rolling start:

    @TomTurbo can you stop with this defense? something has changed, the 033 never was that all mighty and more versatile than the 303 on so many tracks. here’s just a small list:
    Fast circuit (rolling)
    Fast circuit (standing) 
    1/4 mile 
    1/2 mile 
    City streets
    G-force (most probably as well)
    And by the looks of it other tracks for sure.
    I'm not defending anything in any way, I just wanted to tell you how it was in the past that 033 vs 303 hasn't changed with any update (abd I know 100% for city street and drag times)...and since I couldn't remember for fast circuit, I thought I'd help you with times, but it's ok I'll just shut up....
    No worries bro it’s all good, we’re having a friendly debate here. I was just as surprised as Tim about how a 033 tune can overtake (not even a tie) a 303 tune in a straight line where the 303 has a higher top speed and a bit better 0-60.
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Ofirm84 said:
    TomTurbo said:
    Ofirm84 said:
    303 standing start:

    303 rolling start:

    @TomTurbo can you stop with this defense? something has changed, the 033 never was that all mighty and more versatile than the 303 on so many tracks. here’s just a small list:
    Fast circuit (rolling)
    Fast circuit (standing) 
    1/4 mile 
    1/2 mile 
    City streets
    G-force (most probably as well)
    And by the looks of it other tracks for sure.
    I'm not defending anything in any way, I just wanted to tell you how it was in the past that 033 vs 303 hasn't changed with any update (abd I know 100% for city street and drag times)...and since I couldn't remember for fast circuit, I thought I'd help you with times, but it's ok I'll just shut up....
    No worries bro it’s all good, we’re having a friendly debate here. I was just as surprised as Tim about how a 033 tune can overtake (not even a tie) a 303 tune in a straight line where the 303 has a higher top speed and a bit better 0-60.
    No idea why it's like that on drags, but I noticed this long time ago on a 12C aswell. Although I think it doesn't apply to all cars, that the weight upgrade overtakes the power upgrade in drags (as Tim mentioned, it may depend on how big that weight upgrade is for certain car)
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Member Posts: 454 ✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Just to say, the question over the R8's performance is noted, I've added checking those matchups to the ongoing corrections list.

    On the subject of upgrades, on straights it should always be that 330 > 303 and that 330 > 033, obviously. Since grip doesn't come into it, it's much more ambiguous which would win out of 303 and 033, as it largely depends on how big weight upgrades are vs. engine.  As soon as corners come into it (e.g. in any Circuit) I would be surprised to see 033 take the edge over 303.
    Would it be possible to please post the “ongoing corrections list” at all?  More and more seem to be cropping up since the update, the Caterham one being my biggest disappointment. 
  • TomTurboTomTurbo Member Posts: 604 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Here's the tests we did when the first fix was released (the one that broke 4wd)

    drag times for 033 before the fixes (dry & wet) , these are still the same.


    Drag tests from dagMan right after first fix:
    daGman said:
    TomTurbo said:
    daGman said:
    TomTurbo said:
    mikes said:
    I’ll do some testing. I have a lot of high end 4WD maxed with stats before and after the update. I’ll compare that RWD. 
    You got a 033 RS6 by chance to test it on a dry and wet drag. Drag times for any rwd cars is still the same, but I'd like to see the drag times for 4wd (other than R8, GTR or NSX). I'm still on the old client.

    a Pikes Peak would do aswell.
    I have a 303 RS 6 that I could try tests with, not 033 though. Which tracks do you want?
    Can you do USA 10, any of the drags and maybe a wet drag on France 4
    Here are the  timings for the RS 6 at 303 on all of the drags, dry and (wet):

    1/4 mile: 11:03 / (11:16)
    1/2 mile: 17:26 / (17:46)
    1 mile: 28.26 / (28:56)

    Only difference between 033 & 303 is in the wet conditions a 303 will always draw, while on dirt it will always win.

    Here's the link to the discussion
    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/4148/4wd-after-the-update/p1


  • willcf15willcf15 Member Posts: 217 ✭✭✭
    edited February 13
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Since grip doesn't come into it, it's much more ambiguous which would win out of 303 and 033, as it largely depends on how big weight upgrades are vs. engine.  As soon as corners come into it (e.g. in any Circuit) I would be surprised to see 033 take the edge over 303.
    @Hutch_Tim

    I'm sorry, but this doesn't make much sense to me. You're right that it would hypothetically depend on the amount of weight shed or amount of power added, but I would assume that they follow these formulas, or something similar:

    Engine upgrade: Upgraded Power = [Stock Power] + [stock power]*[Number of engine upgrades]/100
    Weight upgrade: Upgraded Weight = [Stock Weight] - [stock weight]/([number of weight upgrades]/100 + 1)

    (Maybe I goofed these up a little, but the intent is that Power/Weight for an engine upgrade should be equal to Power/Weight for a weight upgrade)

    These formulas appear to be plausible at a glance, but I haven't actually confirmed them. Whether this is the actual formula, or even if it's something slightly different, the results should be as follows, under the assumption that the relative effectiveness of upgrades was remotely balanced:

    330 beats all other tunes in a straight line, but loses on any race with corners (except maybe fast circuit on slower cars, where the straights are effectively "longer" because the cars spend more time on them, and top speed differences come into play).

    303 beats 033 in a straight line, period. If air resistance did not exist, then adding ~1% to power and reducing weight by ~1% would be roughly equal. However, once air resistance is in play, 303 should always pull ahead of 033. 303 should also beat all other tunes on short city streets and fast circuit.

    033 beats 303 on tight twisties, as the reduced inertia, both rotational and linear, combined with lower velocities (negligible air resistance means reducing mass and increasing power provide very similar acceleration), should give the lighter car an edge. This would include karting circuit (indoor and outdoor) and slalom.

    Twisty Circuit, twisty road, g-force test, and Hairpin road are toss-ups between 303 and 033 based on straight length and the fact that they contain fewer quick changes in direction (i.e. difference in rotational inertia is less important, more power becomes important due to higher speeds). For the purposes of this game, I'd say twisty circuit and should generally go to 033 and hairpin road to 303. G-force should probably go to 033 if we're assuming downforce exists. Twisty road I really have no clue due to the elevation changes and mix of straights and tight curves.

    Additionally, from a balance perspective, if 033 beats 303 in a straight line, 303 effectively becomes a worthless tune, because, as stated above, it should lose on tight courses if upgrades are balanced correctly.

    Post edited by willcf15 on
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 188 admin
    First, I mistyped the last statement - I do expect 033 to beat 303 when corners come into it!

    willcf15 said:
    Additionally, from a balance perspective, if 033 beats 303 in a straight line, 303 effectively becomes a worthless tune, because, as stated above, it should lose on tight courses if upgrades are balanced correctly.

    This is the interesting part of the argument. We could potentially tweak the relative strength of engine vs. weight upgrades to make the tune end-game more strategic. Does this feel necessary? It seems like people go for 330 for drag specialists, 033 for cornering specialists, and 303 for anything they want to be more versatile, which seems pretty good.
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