General Discussion

So are 699 cars really useless now?

OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 313 ✭✭✭

I think this one deserves its own thread.

We know that update 7.0 brought some changes to the physics simulation, and now it seems some strange results emerged because of this.

699 cars that has previously won against their 969 versions now lose on certain tracks, making them much much less useful. Was this change intentional or accidental?

Car park, Indoor Karting and Standing Slalom were the tracks best suited for 699 cars, so that's where I tested some of my cars with both tunes. Here are the results, bolded tunes are the ones that win now. I only have times for the Beat from before the last update, but as far as I remember the 699 cars were mostly faster than their 969 versions on these tracks. The Beat definitely was.

Standing Slalom:
969 vs 699 - RQ22 Ford RS200
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Abarth
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Datsun
969 vs 699 - RQ16 Lotus Elise
969 vs 699 - RQ15 Lotus Elise 1.6
969 vs 699 - RQ15 Mazda RX-8 PZ
969 vs 699 - RQ15 Swift Rally
969 vs 699 - RQ13 Mazda MX-5 BBR Turbo
969 vs 699 - RQ13 Escort Rally
969 vs 699 - RQ9 Caterham Seven 160
969 vs 699 - RQ6 Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint
969 vs 699 - RQ4 Citroen Mehari 4x4
969 vs 699 - RQ4 Honda Beat

Indoor Karting:
969 vs 699 - RQ22 Ford RS200
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Abarth
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Datsun
969 vs 699 - RQ16 Lotus Elise
969 vs 699 - RQ9 Caterham Seven 160
969 vs 699 - RQ6 Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint
969 vs 699 - RQ4 Honda Beat

Car Park:
969 vs 699 - RQ22 Ford RS200
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Abarth
969 vs 699 - RQ17 Datsun
969 vs 699 - RQ16 Lotus Elise
969 vs 699 - RQ9 Caterham Seven 160
969 vs 699 - RQ6 Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint
969 vs 699 - RQ4 Honda Beat

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Comments

  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 313 ✭✭✭
    bobdylan said:
    Sell them all 


    Buy plastics 

    And tune everything you get 699 I guess. :D
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "We’ve now given the driver AI better understanding of how to use the additional power, lower weight or greater handling an upgrade provides, so you should see a lot fewer of these unexpected results."
    - Patch notes of Top Drives PL 7.0, 2018
  • 43MK443MK4 Member Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    This new "better" AI understanding and mix up of current performance of 303 and 033 has simply resulted in that I'm not willing to max any cars right now. Can't afford wrongly tuned cars so it's all on standby for me.
  • hillclimberhillclimber Member Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    "We’ve now given the driver AI better understanding of how to use the additional power, lower weight or greater handling an upgrade provides, so you should see a lot fewer of these unexpected results."
    - Patch notes of Top Drives PL 7.0, 2018
    you mean there is hope for your 699-only garage?
  • TNThomasTNThomas Member Posts: 468 ✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    "We’ve now given the driver AI better understanding of how to use the additional power, lower weight or greater handling an upgrade provides, so you should see a lot fewer of these unexpected results."
    - Patch notes of Top Drives PL 7.0, 2018
    Alright, but making 969 better almost everywhere doesn’t make better in my opinion. Furthermore, giving 699 cars the edge on handling tracks like before makes more sense to me than the current “969-change”.

    Please Hutch, tell us if this was planed. If so, why is this change made?
  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 313 ✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    "We’ve now given the driver AI better understanding of how to use the additional power, lower weight or greater handling an upgrade provides, so you should see a lot fewer of these unexpected results."
    - Patch notes of Top Drives PL 7.0, 2018
    Yeah that's what I was referring to, but it seems like the balace is a bit off now, making one of the three main tunes much useless than the others.
  • TD01055TD01055 Member Posts: 1,273 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For what it’s worth (and for the record I’m not a fan of the change) for epics the tunes are now actually more balanced. 699 is still the best, it’s only slalom that has switched over to 969. Before the odds were so overwhelmingly in the favour of 699 that it was a no-brainier for tunes. This seems to be the case for ~RQ21 and above. 
  • Steph81Steph81 Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    Nice work! However, I would like to hear from Hutch if this change is accidental or planned? And if it was planned, why did Hutch think this was needed?

    I like the old version more, since it was valuable to have 969 and 699 of a lot of cars. Now it’s just best to use 969 for a lot more cars and tracks, which makes it less interesting
    How long do you play TD ?

    In every update we get some new features and always some new Bugs (some explained as features and intended afterwards).
    The bigger the update and changes, the more and anoying bugs we get.
     Every time !

    TBH hutch seems to have absolutly no idea, how their own game engine works. Every little change brings a new bug with it... neverending story.

    we have to deal with it...
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If we can disregard the fact that a lot of us have a lot invested in 033 cars this may not be a bad thing.  The upgradebmodel appears to have moved from a default 033 one (with only a few exceptions) to what perhaps it should be... A "lean in" model.

    By that I mean lean into a cars advantages. Handling cars will probably still end up being 033 because that's where you'll want to place them. top speed cars may end up better now as 330, balanced cars favouring 303.

    IDK how the r500 performed maxed on fast track in its various tunes but doesn't it make sense that 330 should generally win that race for most cars? Certainly against 033.  I don't think that was generally the case before.
  • hifichrishifichris Member Posts: 46
    @Hutch : can i have all my cars switched to 969 ?
    I believe this is a bug, if not, i will not spent time anymore on this lottery game.
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    so... no compensation for us then? you guys messed this up royally.
    This patch: 033 breaks
    last patch: Dakar breaks, hillclimb breaks
    more upgraded cars lose to less? rolling slalom breaks? 

    Please, was there testing before you released it? I'll happily update my game when it's ready.
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD01055 said:
    For what it’s worth (and for the record I’m not a fan of the change) for epics the tunes are now actually more balanced. 699 is still the best, it’s only slalom that has switched over to 969. Before the odds were so overwhelmingly in the favour of 699 that it was a no-brainier for tunes. This seems to be the case for ~RQ21 and above. 
    Rubbish. Now not only you need to have a 033 one, you also need a 330 and 303 one. In real life tuning that could be easy, but in game there is NO way we can reverse our final upgrades and make changes from there. Don't give them a reason to charge us more.
  • mauro07mauro07 Member Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭✭
    5 CF for everyone and we are happy!! LOL
  • UncleGaryUncleGary Member Posts: 116 ✭✭✭
    edited October 10
    We need to be able to re-spec our cars, even if it's only one car every week or two, or by paying gold. The ability to re-spec can be disabled during important events and so on so that it does not get abused. Lot of possibilities here. These is just ******* people off.
    Post edited by Gsearch on
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD01055 said:
    TGPD said:
    TD01055 said:
    For what it’s worth (and for the record I’m not a fan of the change) for epics the tunes are now actually more balanced. 699 is still the best, it’s only slalom that has switched over to 969. Before the odds were so overwhelmingly in the favour of 699 that it was a no-brainier for tunes. This seems to be the case for ~RQ21 and above. 
    Rubbish. Now not only you need to have a 033 one, you also need a 330 and 303 one. In real life tuning that could be easy, but in game there is NO way we can reverse our final upgrades and make changes from there. Don't give them a reason to charge us more.
    If you read your comment back you’re actually complaining that the game is more balanced?! In a perfect world there would be equal value between the 3 tunes.

    im not saying it isn’t annoying that cars performance and tunes changes, buts let’s be realistic and pragmatic for once? It’s been a day and people are crying for compensation, it’s hilarious! 
    I'd agree with this broadly speaking.  We don't know AFAIK if this is a new normal or a bug.  

    Either way surely we can agree that having more tunes be viable is an improvement.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD01055 said:
    TGPD said:
    TD01055 said:
    For what it’s worth (and for the record I’m not a fan of the change) for epics the tunes are now actually more balanced. 699 is still the best, it’s only slalom that has switched over to 969. Before the odds were so overwhelmingly in the favour of 699 that it was a no-brainier for tunes. This seems to be the case for ~RQ21 and above. 
    Rubbish. Now not only you need to have a 033 one, you also need a 330 and 303 one. In real life tuning that could be easy, but in game there is NO way we can reverse our final upgrades and make changes from there. Don't give them a reason to charge us more.
    If you read your comment back you’re actually complaining that the game is more balanced?! In a perfect world there would be equal value between the 3 tunes.

    im not saying it isn’t annoying that cars performance and tunes changes, buts let’s be realistic and pragmatic for once? It’s been a day and people are crying for compensation, it’s hilarious! 
    I'd agree with this broadly speaking.  We don't know AFAIK if this is a new normal or a bug.  

    Either way surely we can agree that having more tunes be viable is an improvement.

    I agree with the sentiment that having the 969 tune be more useful is going to benefit the game. But it should be ina way that makes sense. on fast circuit, maybe, even twisty circuit. twisty road, hairpin etc.

    But not on either slaloms, please never on a slalom.
  • Steph81Steph81 Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    there is a sneaky plan in the updates:

    People invest and buy car packs to get the best cars for their classes and tracks and tune them for maaany bucks to the best tune.
    some month later many topplayers have the best cars for the specific tracks with the best tunes ready fused in their garage.

    now hutch steps in, brings a change in the game, so that another car becomes with another tune the best specialist... so all, also the big spenders, have to invest now again maaaany bucks to get this new best cars....

    every update brings better cars then existing to make big spenders keep spending... or changes will make cars, like the z28, not anymore usefull for special tracks, where it shined before... ... greedy move and always a kick in the **** of those who invested sooooo much and collected the "best" cars with "best" tunes.
  • lg29lg29 Member Posts: 493 ✭✭✭
    But is the Lotus 340R now "useless" though?
  • Steph81Steph81 Member Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    lg29 said:
    But is the Lotus 340R now "useless" though?
    depends on your garage and your opponent ... at least it may become usefull again after one of the next updates and some new feature bugs...
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They can't just change the best tunes. They just shouldn't.
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    TD01055 said:
    TGPD said:
    TD01055 said:
    For what it’s worth (and for the record I’m not a fan of the change) for epics the tunes are now actually more balanced. 699 is still the best, it’s only slalom that has switched over to 969. Before the odds were so overwhelmingly in the favour of 699 that it was a no-brainier for tunes. This seems to be the case for ~RQ21 and above. 
    Rubbish. Now not only you need to have a 033 one, you also need a 330 and 303 one. In real life tuning that could be easy, but in game there is NO way we can reverse our final upgrades and make changes from there. Don't give them a reason to charge us more.
    If you read your comment back you’re actually complaining that the game is more balanced?! In a perfect world there would be equal value between the 3 tunes.

    im not saying it isn’t annoying that cars performance and tunes changes, buts let’s be realistic and pragmatic for once? It’s been a day and people are crying for compensation, it’s hilarious! 
    I'd agree with this broadly speaking.  We don't know AFAIK if this is a new normal or a bug.  

    Either way surely we can agree that having more tunes be viable is an improvement.

    I agree with the sentiment that having the 969 tune be more useful is going to benefit the game. But it should be ina way that makes sense. on fast circuit, maybe, even twisty circuit. twisty road, hairpin etc.

    But not on either slaloms, please never on a slalom.
    Here's what I see as making sense in general.

    330 should always win all drags

    303 should generally win fast circuits and hairpin

    033 should always win g-force, carpark and probably the karting circuits.

    Slalom is interesting because there are four distinct phases of acceleration which should favour 303, Obviously the weaving is where the 033 are and should be stronger. Twisty circuits / road and city tracks equally make some sense to be a mix of the two depending on the car as these tracks require both turning and frequent strong acceleration. 

    Fast circuit and hairpin I'd like to see 330 be more competative with 303 and it would make some sense for it to beat 033 most of the time.

    YMMV.

  • MoogMoog Member Posts: 60 ✭✭
    I don't think that there should be a rule that a certain build should always win on certain tracks, there are other variables at play. I do agree that there should be a usage for the various builds though so a 699 Countach is the 'correct' build and a 969 Countach is lolololol. In my mind in a perfect world they've all got their uses.


  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭
    I'm not fine with our carefully set up garages suddenly becoming uncompetitive. 
    Uncompetitive against who exactly?
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