General Discussion

The New Trophy System

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  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,366 admin
    @DrizztSalvatore I now understand what you meant.  Calling it an investment may be misusing the term.


  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,366 admin
    @TGPD The amount of money someone spends needs to be considered in proportion to their means.  
    Some people HAVE to win.  I don't feel that way, personally, my enjoyment comes from the competition. 


  • GilTrucksGilTrucks Member Posts: 375 ✭✭✭
    Since the Trophy Count change, I have played the daily events to get into the best position, as well as any event I participate. The game is a waste of time, it cost me more money than I should have and lately I'm just using the game's own resource to earn coins and money.
    For me, the trophy mode will only make it use more or less Top Drives to pass the time depending on the possibility of a good result in the championship.
    So using the game in this way would like more phases in the campaign.
  • TopDivesTopDives Member Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    I want to elaborate a little bit more on my thoughts, since i see posts saying (not to me specifically i believe) things like: you are not winning and you were used to farming and now you can't, you want to cheat by smarfing and now it is difficult, trophies will put top players in other tiers and everything will be ok, whoever spends the most deserves the wins etc. 
    And i just want to make something absolutely clear. To me, it is not about winning, it is about the fun, the value i get per hour of playing the game. 

    Value has a few definitions but i will concentrate on 2 of them:
    1. The material or monetary worth of something (oxforddictionaries.com)
    ex: The total value of AC Origins gold edition was around 62 Euros on Black Friday
    2. The worth of something compared to the price paid or asked for it (oxforddictionaries.com)
    ex: At 62 Euros, AC Origins was a great value. I logged around 100 hours so far, and there is still lots to do. 

    There is also the notion of replayability:
    Replay value or replayability is a term used to assess a video game's potential for continued play value after its first completion (wikipedia)
    Witcher was one of the games that comes to mind. Fallout series was another one.

    The way I look if my money was well spend is this:
    I paid 62 euros for the game and put in 100 hours playing. It has great replayability and  a lot more things to do, so i believe i will log around 200 hours in the end. This comes to be 31 cents / hour played.

    For TD, if you had spend 100 euros and you have been active since October (around 200 days), you would have played let's say 2 hours/day, that's 400 hours. So this comes to be 0.25 cents / hour played. So if you spend 100 euros on TD, it is a great value in comparison to buying a game for a console/PC. Of course if you spend more, then things change.

    IMO, the value is not the problem here. It is game playability. "Playability represents the degree to which specified users can achieve specified goals with effectiveness, efficiency, and specially satisfaction and fun" (Human Centered Design: First International Conference, HCD 2009).

    TD gamers (racers?) tend to talk more about smarfing (or smurfing? i see it both ways) and farming (what's the difference i don't know), top farming and bottom farming (what?), trophies count and low limit, not wanting to race in order to change tiers, sharks (shark tank perhaps?), using 3F cars and 2 good cars in their hand cause it is easier to smurf (OMG!!), tiers, brackets ... so many terms, conditions, terminology, miscommunication, not knowing how many trophies i get after the update and the community has to figure it out (confused much?) ... things i had never heard in my life before, especially in a racing game, and i have been playing games, well, since ever.

    Disclaimer: My comments are not only about Trophies, they are general comments, thoughts and feedback. If anyone thinks, after carefully reading this, that i complain about not winning 1st, please kindly move on.

    So, thank you for reading this, if you made it this far. Thoughts are always welcomed from the TD community.
    But I would also like to call on Hutch's response. Hopefully they show up, not like Zuckerberg's refusal to show up before UK MP :)

    Cheers!

  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    @TopDives you play a game to win or to have fun, not to lose and even unable to help anyone in the process cuz everyone else is doing the same. People can’t wait that long for changes to happen, as it may take months if not a whole year, so what do you do? Find a new game and move on. 
  • TopDivesTopDives Member Posts: 593 ✭✭✭
    jczero said:
    @TopDives you play a game to win or to have fun, not to lose and even unable to help anyone in the process cuz everyone else is doing the same. People can’t wait that long for changes to happen, as it may take months if not a whole year, so what do you do? Find a new game and move on. 
    True. If a game, or anything in life for that matter, is not enjoyable any longer you just have to move on. I remember the days when we had such a small amount of content available to us that we were limited by options. But not any more.
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 600 admin
    Djehoetie said:

    But with this new system , they made it impossible for the majority of the playerbase to even make a chance on those top tier prices.


    We know this change makes it harder for some players to win than it was before, and we appreciate considered feedback. I thought I should jump in on this specific point though because it is the very opposite of what this change does!

    Previously if you found yourself grouped with people you couldn't beat, they would gain trophies by winning, then smurf their way back down in the daily to beat you again in the next prize event.

    In the new system, anyone that beats you in an event gains trophies and eventually leaves your bracket, making it more likely you can win next time. For the first time, many players - players who put in time and effort, play smartly, and do everything they can to win except smurf, either because they don't know it might help or don't want to - are starting to have a chance at top tier prizes who never did before.


    Let's talk a bit more widely about matchmaking. It's a really hard problem because, as you can imagine, we could (in various ways) order players from 1 to 5 million by how likely they are to win. So how should we match them up? If we just took the top 100 and put them in one bracket, the 101st to 200th in another bracket and so on... then the person in 100th is unlikely to ever win because they are matched with the 99 people in the game better than them, and the person in 101st has a much easier time. That seems crazy, but ultimately any matchmaking system has to deal with that somehow.

    There are two principles that seem important:

    a) If you have a hand that's particularly strong in one area (e.g. 80s cars), you should do better in those events than others
    b) If you never make it to the top tier prizes, you should move to easier brackets at some point

    That's what the new system is trying to do. If you disagree with those, that's an interesting point of debate. If you think there's ways we can achieve what we're trying to do better, that's interesting to hear too (and I've already seen some interesting suggestions).

    One other note: we know that right now (because of smurfing) some people are not in their correct groups, and it will take a while to change. Some people have suggested we should have reset everyone's trophies before this change, and we did consider it. We didn't do it, because it would have made the matchmaking even worse in the short term, and it would have taken even longer for the correct groups to emerge.

    Finally, the tri-series manufacturer event finals that give out prize cars are not matchmade by trophies or RQ, so aren't affected by this. The qualifiers are, but we think that's fairer and in line with the two principles above.




  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 5,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When how much you spend exceed all you could ever want from a console/PC game...
    People like Bugatti (rough estimate) could have spent in the region of 100,000-200,000usd, 200,000usd can be used to buy 200 PS4's and 200 Xbox 1 X's.
    And you could use the spare 20000 dollars to buy whatever game you like, including all the DLC's and premium features.
    Heck, you could even ask an indie developer to make a game for you using those cash... ugh, it's just a money grab sometimes...
  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    When how much you spend exceed all you could ever want from a console/PC game...
    People like Bugatti (rough estimate) could have spent in the region of 100,000-200,000usd, 200,000usd can be used to buy 200 PS4's and 200 Xbox 1 X's.
    And you could use the spare 20000 dollars to buy whatever game you like, including all the DLC's and premium features.
    Heck, you could even ask an indie developer to make a game for you using those cash... ugh, it's just a money grab sometimes...
    In Vietnam they sell you a wife for 1/10 of that price, it’s irrelevant but just look how much can money do...
  • AJTheCaveManAJTheCaveMan Member Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do feel for all the players that get hooked and spend a lot of money on super addictive, and pervasive (sometimes predatory) F2P games in general.. 

    I have good fun, and Ive spent under $10. But my younger, crazier self would absolutely be hundreds + deep by now! With the end game, being regret. That can be really dangerous for people with an addictive personality (like myself), and i advise future new players to only spend within their means.

    I rarely smurfed trophies, just farmed cash, so the recent Finals bumped me up into 3k+, and its pretty brutal.. I was able to place, and win quite a few events at 2k+, so 3k is realistically where I should be anyways. 

    I just hope that it eventually evens out, and these WHALES move up from my 3k bracket soon! Cause I'll be stuck here for a while lol. 1* at a time!
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,366 admin
    What if you do not WANT a PlayStation nor an Xbox.  What if what you really love to do is play a race car card game on your phone or Ipad?  What if you ENJOY spending your money on something like that and it makes you happy?  That is all I am saying.  To each their own.

    I do not think there is anything dishonest, unethical or coercive about Hutch's practices.
  • AJTheCaveManAJTheCaveMan Member Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Gsearch: I agree, nor do I think that. I was not referring to Hutch when raising the concern of pervasive, or predatory F2P games in the industry. I don't want to be misconstrued. 

    Its a terrific game, and players with realistic expectations, who spend within their means for that entertainment, will not be disappointed IMO.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭✭✭





    Why is it that a for the tier 3 prize with a ford st200 we receive 75 trophies?

    Seems to not follow the usual pattern. Typical ceramic tier 2 with 90 gold is 40 trophies only.


  • greddygreddy Member Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    Tier 2 was 375 trophies... but i dont really care about them. Whole matchmaking is broken.. with 3-4k trophies was facing 50k+ trophies guys, and now at 9k trophies still facing same guys. 
  • MSteeLMSteeL Member Posts: 859 ✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:





    Why is it that a for the tier 3 prize with a ford st200 we receive 75 trophies?

    Seems to not follow the usual pattern. Typical ceramic tier 2 with 90 gold is 40 trophies only.


    That awesome mondeo helps your Ford hand enormously, hence 35 more trophies.
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I managed my 1st win yesterday in the Hydro event and bagged myself +50 trophies to take me to 120.  Sweet!  But oh no, then the prelims event was the next to resolve straight afterwards and since I had an absolutely terrible hand for it being fairly new to the game it immediately sucked away -100 points...

    Talk about 1 step forwards and 2 steps back.  Only +50 for a win and -100 straight away... :'(
  • MSteeLMSteeL Member Posts: 859 ✭✭✭✭
    You should be glad for that lol
  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
    I managed my 1st win yesterday in the Hydro event and bagged myself +50 trophies to take me to 120.  Sweet!  But oh no, then the prelims event was the next to resolve straight afterwards and since I had an absolutely terrible hand for it being fairly new to the game it immediately sucked away -100 points...

    Talk about 1 step forwards and 2 steps back.  Only +50 for a win and -100 straight away... :'(
    Not that anything has been taken effect, since 3-4 months now, but when it does you’d wish to have lost every single of those trophies. At least that’s what supposed to be. 
  • prexprex Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    Somehow I got 50 trophies in the dailies today.
  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    prex said:
    Somehow I got 50 trophies in the dailies today.
    Some daily still give you trophies, but it’s not that important anymore
  • prexprex Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭
    jczero said:
    prex said:
    Somehow I got 50 trophies in the dailies today.
    Some daily still give you trophies, but it’s not that important anymore
    Do you know which? Wondering whether there is an idea behind it, but I doubt it.
  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    prex said:
    jczero said:
    prex said:
    Somehow I got 50 trophies in the dailies today.
    Some daily still give you trophies, but it’s not that important anymore
    Do you know which? Wondering whether there is an idea behind it, but I doubt it.
    More of a bug behind it, just that nobody cares
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