So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
This is why I’m keen to see how it tests against the Metro. I’d test it myself but didn’t win the Metro (dammit!)
So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
Yep, I can agree in the comparisson with the pikes, I dont know How much difference makes the ride height but should not be too much.
And What about the pictures @mikes posted comparing it on a dirt hill climb against audi RS7 and audi R8? Similar acceleration if not better on the 959 plus offroad tyres and high ride. Or the ones comparing it to other offroad cars with a much worse acceleration? Those are the ones that seemed quite off to me. PS: the imagen should be on the previous Page
So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
This is why I’m keen to see how it tests against the Metro. I’d test it myself but didn’t win the Metro (dammit!)
Can anyone post up some drag times? Ice/snow please!
So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
Im sorry Tim, but did you look at other screenshots? This doesnt look right at all
So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
You've forgotten the Off-Road tires...I would think that the Dakar definitely wins against the PikesPeak up the hill.
So to summarise: - RQ27 959 Dakar loses to RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on hill climbs... the Pikes Peak has almost a second faster 0-60 (!!), but you'd expect the high ride height to help. Would you expect it to completely off-set that 0-60 difference? - RQ27 959 Dakar beats RQ30 Suzuki Pikes Peak on twisty off-road courses due to off-road tires - looks about right
The car should be king of the hill, D clsss 4wd beats it
Okay, looking into this a bit more, two other factors are in play:
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage - Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
Okay, looking into this a bit more, two other factors are in play:
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage - Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
The question still remains: why does the R8 Spyder from the Screenshots on the previous page beat the Dakar?
Okay, looking into this a bit more, two other factors are in play:
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage - Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
The main problem is not against the Pikes Peak but how the 959 Dakar on a dirt Hillclimb do 37:36 seconds and a Chevrolet Tahoe on the same hillclimb do 37:80 seconds... Against almost every 4WD cars the 959 Dakar is useless on hillclimb !!!
I wonder what ABS has to do with hill climb lol. Can anyone do some testing between other medium/high ground clearance cars? I remember always loosing this matchup, even though I had much better 0-60.
@Hutch_Tim I downloaded the first Video editing app from the App Store and quickly compared the Dakar to the Metro and the Ford Escort and it's pretty obvious that there's something wrong (I believe it's running in 2WD mode), because even the 70s G-class is catching up
@Hutch ; There are experienced TD players showing you with screenshot the abysmal performance of the Dakar and you still are not convinced and give excuses on the fly “it doesn’t have TC and ABS”... (ABS is obviously irrelevant) There are many cars that do pretty well in Hill climbs without TC. Acceleration plays some small role, sure, but 4WD, tires and ground clearance are much much much more important. I cannot accept that 4WD city performance cars like the Audis can get anywhere close to Off road rallye cars like Dakar, it does not make sence.
he spoiled his car with the last upgrade. Back in the 80's Porsche engineers named the the car 959 so TD players in the year 2018 will know how to tune it.
My goal was to find out if the car has really off road tyres and 4wd. So I did some testing to see how much slower a car gets on G-Force test wet asphalt and ice in relation to dry asphalt. everything seems to be okay. The Dakar hast the caracteristica of a off-road tyres car with a bad 4wd (tail heavy?)
So far it seems the Dakar is just worse than expected and hutch perhaps has to adjust it either down or the Metro up (the dakar down to A please) otherwise this car will become a laughingstock on the tracks.
Hutch could you please run the Dakar thru your testing engine?
Okay, looking into this a bit more, two other factors are in play:
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage - Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
So dakar being a coupe probably gets punished hard?
Okay, looking into this a bit more, two other factors are in play:
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage - Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
So dakar being a coupe probably gets punished hard?
Probably. But it’s still strange that a low height performance tire convertible is quicker up the hill.
Sorry, I should have clarified that the absence of TC and ABS will be a slight hinderance to the Dakar in other tracks, not the Hill Climb!
On the Hill Climb, it's mostly going to be due to the SUV performance fingerprint I mentioned (especially vs. the Pikes Peak and I assume the Metro). As I said, we'll look into that - entirely possible that the Dakar should have more of a boost for hills, and probably the Pikes Peak maybe should have less. Vs. the Audis, that looks like just the raw power of the Audis getting them up there quicker.
Thanks for the rigorous testing Hillclimber, that looks about right.
In case it's not obvious, the Dakar has been through the testing engine, it went through the same RQ-assigning process as everything else by being raced against every other car as usual. Looks about right for an RQ27, and it's nice it can beat the RQ30 Pikes Peak when the off-road tires get to really work for it on the corners.
Ok hutch, riddle me this. The Dakar (at 1.3) loses a 1/4 mile drag on ICE to the carrera 4 RQ22 (303) on performance tyres. Neither have traction control. Ridiculous.
When was that Dakar run the last time trough that testing engine? That car is since the beginning in the game, right? Since then a lot of things changed, new cars were added and RQ changes happened. so I thought it's worth to do it again.
than you say that ABS and TC don't matter for hill climb. well...
I don't think the problem so much the dakar but more the pikes peek . Altho it is a actual hill climb car , the hill it climbs isn't like the hills we climb . The cars so low too. The pikes peak needs nerfing on the hills .... and it's suv tag ditching
Ok hutch, riddle me this. The Dakar (at 1.3) loses a 1/4 mile drag on ICE to the carrera 4 RQ22 (303) on performance tyres. Neither have traction control. Ridiculous.
If that’s correct, then the Dakar can’t be 4WD. Even if it was on performance tyres with 4WD it would stuff the 911 on a quarter mile on ice - like the regular 959 does.
Ok hutch, riddle me this. The Dakar (at 1.3) loses a 1/4 mile drag on ICE to the carrera 4 RQ22 (303) on performance tyres. Neither have traction control. Ridiculous.
If that’s correct, then the Dakar can’t be 4WD. Even if it was on performance tyres with 4WD it would stuff the 911 on a quarter mile on ice - like the regular 959 does.
Comments
And What about the pictures @mikes posted comparing it on a dirt hill climb against audi RS7 and audi R8? Similar acceleration if not better on the 959 plus offroad tyres and high ride. Or the ones comparing it to other offroad cars with a much worse acceleration? Those are the ones that seemed quite off to me.
PS: the imagen should be on the previous Page
- 959 Dakar doesn't have TCS or ABS, Pikes Peak does which will give it an advantage
- Pikes Peak is classified as an SUV, and SUVs get a 'performance fingerprint' that gives them an advantage on Hill Climbs (the idea being to capture aspects of the car that just acceleration and ride height can't get at). We can review that.
Sorry for the poor quality
*Edit: just fixed the format of my video
There are experienced TD players showing you with screenshot the abysmal performance of the Dakar and you still are not convinced and give excuses on the fly “it doesn’t have TC and ABS”...
(ABS is obviously irrelevant) There are many cars that do pretty well in Hill climbs without TC. Acceleration plays some small role, sure, but 4WD, tires and ground clearance are much much much more important.
I cannot accept that 4WD city performance cars like the Audis can get anywhere close to Off road rallye cars like Dakar, it does not make sence.
everything seems to be okay. The Dakar hast the caracteristica of a off-road tyres car with a bad 4wd (tail heavy?)
So far it seems the Dakar is just worse than expected and hutch perhaps has to adjust it either down or the Metro up (the dakar down to A please) otherwise this car will become a laughingstock on the tracks.
Hutch could you please run the Dakar thru your testing engine?
On the Hill Climb, it's mostly going to be due to the SUV performance fingerprint I mentioned (especially vs. the Pikes Peak and I assume the Metro). As I said, we'll look into that - entirely possible that the Dakar should have more of a boost for hills, and probably the Pikes Peak maybe should have less. Vs. the Audis, that looks like just the raw power of the Audis getting them up there quicker.
Thanks for the rigorous testing Hillclimber, that looks about right.
In case it's not obvious, the Dakar has been through the testing engine, it went through the same RQ-assigning process as everything else by being raced against every other car as usual. Looks about right for an RQ27, and it's nice it can beat the RQ30 Pikes Peak when the off-road tires get to really work for it on the corners.
When was that Dakar run the last time trough that testing engine? That car is since the beginning in the game, right? Since then a lot of things changed, new cars were added and RQ changes happened. so I thought it's worth to do it again.
than you say that ABS and TC don't matter for hill climb. well...
this is from this thread http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/5439/hill-climb-theory#latest
we still can only speculate how how ABS braking is helping on a hill climb?
Altho it is a actual hill climb car , the hill it climbs isn't like the hills we climb .
The cars so low too.
The pikes peak needs nerfing on the hills .... and it's suv tag ditching
Nerf it !!!!
(Runs and hides from pikespeaks owners)
hang on, hold my beer...