Update 7.0 Car Discussion

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  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Red one has decent MRA. 
  • LSMSCLSMSC Posts: 45 ✭✭
    43MK4 said:
    Spent 3 million of which big majority was US premiums. 
    I have to ask: Where can I find US Premiums for Cash? I havn't seen them in the game...
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    RobGripes said:

    But the response of Tims' that really makes my blood boil is saying that there are no guarantees that support can help us if we want a tune changed for us due to the change in game physics.

    Yeah, sorry about that - I really do have to caveat it though because we can never give carte blanche for that kind of change. We get requests to change 12Cs from 633 to 363; or someone might ask for a tune to be fixed and then write in a few days later for it to be set back to get an advantage in a different event, and so on. Support have to judge each case on its merits.

    But, much more importantly, I did more of an investigation into the changes. I found the optimal tune for a bunch of Epic/Legendary cars on all of the asphalt tracks with curves both before and after the latest AI driving fix. As I suspected, the AI driving bug could affect any kind of tune in any kind of twisty situation; the result of fixing it is therefore that we end up with a roughly equal number of changes of optimal tune in each direction.

    For example, comparing 969 vs 699 before vs after, some tracks 969 used to wIn are now won by 696; some the other way around; some used to tie BUT are now won by 969 or 699; some where 699 or 969 used to win are now ties. There is no bias towards or against any particular tune.

    Put another way, a car that was best tuned 699 on 75% of all the twisty tracks will still be best tuned on 75% of twisty tracks (or close enough), just not necessarily the same ones.

    We'll certainly keep a close eye on the impact of any future physics changes on tunings. We're building a new tool to let us more quickly evaluate that.
    So you're saying people's perception of the impact of this change is more significant that it really is.  

    Say it ain't so.  Let me get my shocked face.

    Having said that, need moar datas Tim.  Can you show us the numbers from your investigation? A couple of examples may calm the storm.
  • GrossbucketsGrossbuckets Posts: 447 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    those high-end challengers seem to be the only useful cars in this update. I'm tempted to buy carbons once they show up but I only have enough gold for two so the chances are rather slim.
    I spent about a million IG cash on US packs, pulled the hellcat, one other not so good epic and 3 ultra rares, rest were C’s. 
    That Widebody beating the Mclaren is amazing!  What’s the diff between the two Epic Hellcats?  They have the same stats except the yellow one has more grip for some reason.  I mean they both have the same width!  Where is your “widebody”?  But seriously, do u know if one beats the other in a straight line?
    Have a look at the wheelarches and you'll see why one is the widebody and the other isn't.
    Ya but arches don’t dictate width...oh I see now, flared to fit fatter tires, which is why it has more grip than the regular green hellcat.  But pics show what looks like exact same predtruding tires...no  farther out than green one.  It looks like the wheel arches are just flared.  Same exact angle on both and tires are identical.  But I don’t know anything...just curious 
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    those high-end challengers seem to be the only useful cars in this update. I'm tempted to buy carbons once they show up but I only have enough gold for two so the chances are rather slim.
    I spent about a million IG cash on US packs, pulled the hellcat, one other not so good epic and 3 ultra rares, rest were C’s. 
    That Widebody beating the Mclaren is amazing!  What’s the diff between the two Epic Hellcats?  They have the same stats except the yellow one has more grip for some reason.  I mean they both have the same width!  Where is your “widebody”?  But seriously, do u know if one beats the other in a straight line?
    Have a look at the wheelarches and you'll see why one is the widebody and the other isn't.
    Ya but arches don’t dictate width...oh I see now, flared to fit fatter tires, which is why it has more grip than the regular green hellcat.  But pics show what looks like exact same predtruding tires...no  farther out than green one.  It looks like the wheel arches are just flared.  Same exact angle on both and tires are identical.  But I don’t know anything...just curious 
    Wider wheelbase, not wider tyres.  Alas I'm not an automatic engineer so I don't know the physics as to why that would mean better grip.
  • LSMSCLSMSC Posts: 45 ✭✭
    @grandvache
    Thank you for the explanation. :smile:
  • flight4590flight4590 Posts: 550 ✭✭✭
    Seeing 699 nerfed to the ground is an upset but luckily I didn't follow all the people who have god tier draggers and made my Z28 969.  I'm now laughing off to the bank. 
  • 43MK443MK4 Posts: 1,816 ✭✭✭✭✭

    SO I pulled this white Corvette RQ25 from 2009 from a carbon. What do you guys think about it? (cant post a picture)

    Im not really impressed by it after some initial testing.

    Looks poor in general, poor compared to other USA cars. Just a competitive epic compared to others in American dream pack. What do you think?

  • David_FookDavid_Fook Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the Dodge Charger Daytona looking like the best of them for bumpy city streets? Pulled one and am desperately trying to justify it...
  • TheTruePwnzorTheTruePwnzor Posts: 188 ✭✭✭
    those high-end challengers seem to be the only useful cars in this update. I'm tempted to buy carbons once they show up but I only have enough gold for two so the chances are rather slim.
    I spent about a million IG cash on US packs, pulled the hellcat, one other not so good epic and 3 ultra rares, rest were C’s. 
    That Widebody beating the Mclaren is amazing!  What’s the diff between the two Epic Hellcats?  They have the same stats except the yellow one has more grip for some reason.  I mean they both have the same width!  Where is your “widebody”?  But seriously, do u know if one beats the other in a straight line?
    Have a look at the wheelarches and you'll see why one is the widebody and the other isn't.
    Ya but arches don’t dictate width...oh I see now, flared to fit fatter tires, which is why it has more grip than the regular green hellcat.  But pics show what looks like exact same predtruding tires...no  farther out than green one.  It looks like the wheel arches are just flared.  Same exact angle on both and tires are identical.  But I don’t know anything...just curious 
    Wider wheelbase, not wider tyres.  Alas I'm not an automatic engineer so I don't know the physics as to why that would mean better grip.

    Think of the wheelbase like a fulcrum, where the wheels are the ends of the lever and the centerline CoG is the fulcrum. The further out the wheels are the more force they exert on the CoG, thus creating greater cornering force. This, of course, is entirely limited by mechanical grip. I would be happy to post some math on it if there's interest but I haven't had coffee yet and I kind of think no one cares lol.
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    No comment on the Viper ACR and Durango SRT?
    Oh, I noted those. We need a better system for tracking these corrections so people can know what we've noted and what stage something is at. After failing to come up with a perfect solution I've just thought of a maybe-adequate one... I'll talk to the rest of the team tomorrow just to check I'm not crazy and if it makes sense I'll kick it off.
    @Hutch_Tim What did the team say? Do you have a solution?

    If so, does that mean you can answer the two questions I asked earlier about the Viper ACR and Durango SRT?  :#
    @Hutch_Tim Any progress? I am really curious what you and your team decided to do with the system for tracking stats corrections.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    RobGripes said:

    But the response of Tims' that really makes my blood boil is saying that there are no guarantees that support can help us if we want a tune changed for us due to the change in game physics.

    Yeah, sorry about that - I really do have to caveat it though because we can never give carte blanche for that kind of change. We get requests to change 12Cs from 633 to 363; or someone might ask for a tune to be fixed and then write in a few days later for it to be set back to get an advantage in a different event, and so on. Support have to judge each case on its merits.

    But, much more importantly, I did more of an investigation into the changes. I found the optimal tune for a bunch of Epic/Legendary cars on all of the asphalt tracks with curves both before and after the latest AI driving fix. As I suspected, the AI driving bug could affect any kind of tune in any kind of twisty situation; the result of fixing it is therefore that we end up with a roughly equal number of changes of optimal tune in each direction.

    For example, comparing 969 vs 699 before vs after, some tracks 969 used to wIn are now won by 696; some the other way around; some used to tie BUT are now won by 969 or 699; some where 699 or 969 used to win are now ties. There is no bias towards or against any particular tune.

    Put another way, a car that was best tuned 699 on 75% of all the twisty tracks will still be best tuned on 75% of twisty tracks (or close enough), just not necessarily the same ones.

    We'll certainly keep a close eye on the impact of any future physics changes on tunings. We're building a new tool to let us more quickly evaluate that.

    Hi Tim, thanks for jumping in with a reply.

    I think that the majority of users on this forum are a fair bunch who merely want to know what the situation is, and what to expect going forward. If you could share Hutch's thoughts it would have at least allow us to understand the process and whether these changes make sense in Hutchs' eyes.

    For the physics changes, nobody expected that a handling-focused tune like 699 to suddenly lose handling-type races to 969 tune if it had previously won. The changes in race times are tiny - tenths or even hundredths of a second in most cases - but the issue is not how much the times change but if our tuning paths make sense. 

    A 699 tune may still win 75% of the time still, but does it win the races I had intended its use for? If i tuned my caterham 699 to win slalom, but it now (hypothetically) loses to the 969 tune, it is little consolation that it wins fast circuit because I would never put it there anyway.

    There have been lots of threads, too many possibly, for you to respond to, so inevitably your replies on some threads may have gotten overlooked. Maybe it'd be a good idea to start a new thread with some reactions to the forums' most voiced concerns rather than on each separate thread. 
  • ManUtdTobbeManUtdTobbe Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As an ACR owner it would be pretty cool if it was corrected before the finals.
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭
    As an ACR owner it would be pretty cool if it was corrected before the finals.
    Exactly, also the Durango SRT! However, I never got a reply from @Hutch_Tim about these two cars. Furthermore, as can be seen in one of his previous replies, he discussed a way to track changes to car stats better. Curious to hear what they decided to do with that.

    All in all, correcting the stats of the ACR and Durango SRT before the finals should be done indeed...
  • Chris1775Chris1775 Posts: 325 ✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    No way those corrections will be done before the finals.
    Tim didn’t give the impression they were changing the stats on the Durango either....sounded more like a change of name so they can keep the v6 stats. I really hope I’m wrong on this one
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭
    Chris1775 said:
    HeissRod said:
    No way those corrections will be done before the finals.
    Tim didn’t give the impression they were changing the stats on the Durango either....sounded more like a change of name so they can keep the v6 stats. I really hope I’m wrong on this one
    As I said before, adding another super rare SUV would be undesired for players. A new epic SUV would make more sense and would be far more useful/fun for players. So I really hope they correct the stats to SRT stats!
  • ManUtdTobbeManUtdTobbe Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ACR would be a quick fix, Durango would be a bigger change.
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    I just would like a comment from Hutch on these cars and corresponding stats... They have been ignoring me for a few days about this. ;)
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 5,027 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Chris1775 said:
    HeissRod said:
    No way those corrections will be done before the finals.
    Tim didn’t give the impression they were changing the stats on the Durango either....sounded more like a change of name so they can keep the v6 stats. I really hope I’m wrong on this one
    I own the sister to this vehicle (GC SRT8), so I A. really want to pull one and then B. have it move to Epic.  It's hilarious that this is the only American Dream Super Rare that I haven't pulled, especially when I have doubles and triples of others.
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    hutch guys vanished in this days... LOL .. maybe they work on bug fixes or in new packs offers $$$$
    Post edited by mauro07 on
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they will change the durango's name, not the stats
  • TNThomasTNThomas Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    they will change the durango's name, not the stats
    Please don’t say that, you make me cry... I really want that Durango SRT, such a beast IRL!
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huskic69 said:
    they will change the durango's name, not the stats
    Please don’t say that, you make me cry... I really want that Durango SRT, such a beast IRL!
    Do we have any precedent on this sort of change?
  • ManUtdTobbeManUtdTobbe Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bet they'll change the name of the Durango to match the specs and then add the Durango SRT in a later patch with the correct specs.
  • O__VERO__VER Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just in case though, I'd love to actually pull a Durango. FFS.
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i hope they change stats for Durango... they put this auto as other example, they have changed stats or specs or photo but not the name of the car!!
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