Ground clearance

adms87adms87 Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
One of the stats that needs a huge upgrade is ground clearance. Maybe we could stick to just one topic about this. I'll start with Alfa Romeo:

S28 - Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio
IG: Medium
Real: Low - 100mm
Links: https://www.caradvice.com.au/641976/2018-alfa-romeo-giulia-qv-review/price-specifications/

B21 - Alfa Romeo Giulia Veloce
IG: Medium
Real: Low - 100mm
Links: https://www.car.info/en-se/alfa-romeo/giulia/giulia-20-tbi-q4-a8-2016-8092575/specs
https://www.caradvice.com.au/554900/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-veloce-review/price-specifications/

C18 - Alfa Romeo 147 GTA
IG: Medium
Real: Low - 119mm
Links: https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/alfa-romeo-147-gta-2003.html#aeng_alfa-romeo-147-gta-2003-32-v6
I've seen other sites where is stated 140mm or 150mm but that's the same ground clearance stated to the regular 147 and no way this car has the same ground clearance. Also check the link below for the 156 GTA. 147 is probably very close to the 156.

C18 - Alfa Romeo 156 GTA
IG: Medium
Real: Low - 92mm
Links: http://www.squadramoravia.com/manual/alfa156/gta.pdf



Comments

  • Nacho101Nacho101 Posts: 476 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16
    Id like a refund on my Giulia Veloce if they change it to low thanks
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In context of these and other measurements it might be worth having a discussion about where the threshold for "medium" lies.

    I seem to recall that the s8+ and RS6 should now be low given their actual measured ride heights, that doesn't feel right to me.
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The problem with ground clearance is that it can have a huge impact on a car's RQ number, so correcting it would probably cause a lot of RQ and rarity changes, potentially upsetting many players. We all remember the case of the Camaro Z/28 (one of the most useful cars, now completely forgotten). I think that's why Hutch is hesitating, but I agree that it does not make much sense now for a lot of cars.
  • mikesmikes Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Added the Alfas.
  • adms87adms87 Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    The problem with ground clearance is that it can have a huge impact on a car's RQ number, so correcting it would probably cause a lot of RQ and rarity changes, potentially upsetting many players. We all remember the case of the Camaro Z/28 (one of the most useful cars, now completely forgotten). I think that's why Hutch is hesitating, but I agree that it does not make much sense now for a lot of cars.
    It should'nt be that huge. There's only 3 tracks with bumps. There's probably also some impact in offroad conditions, but we are mainly talking about sports cars, so it doesn't affect players that much I think. Also, the Z/28 only dropped 1 RQ.
  • adms87adms87 Posts: 296 ✭✭✭
    In context of these and other measurements it might be worth having a discussion about where the threshold for "medium" lies.

    I seem to recall that the s8+ and RS6 should now be low given their actual measured ride heights, that doesn't feel right to me.
    I have a better idea. Just put the real value instead of calling it low/medium/high and affect exponentially the time cars get to pass through the bumps or any other obstacle/surface.
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    adms87 said:
    Ozzman said:
    The problem with ground clearance is that it can have a huge impact on a car's RQ number, so correcting it would probably cause a lot of RQ and rarity changes, potentially upsetting many players. We all remember the case of the Camaro Z/28 (one of the most useful cars, now completely forgotten). I think that's why Hutch is hesitating, but I agree that it does not make much sense now for a lot of cars.
    It should'nt be that huge. There's only 3 tracks with bumps. There's probably also some impact in offroad conditions, but we are mainly talking about sports cars, so it doesn't affect players that much I think. Also, the Z/28 only dropped 1 RQ.
    Yes, changing the ground clearance would probably mean 1 or 2 RQ up or down, so maybe "huge" was an overstatement. But since a lot of cars are involved, that would also mean a lot of rarity changes. They could probably do it in smaller portions.
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm pretty convinced that if you change the ground clearances we'd have an absolute bonfire of city streets cars, and a bunch of really very upset users.

    Rs3, epic M5's, the Audi's above, all too low.  Evo's and scoobys will do it, but what else?  Not much is above 120mm outside of much older cars or SUVs I suspect.  

    To me It doesn't "feel" right if a luxury saloon, (albeit a sporty model) has the same difficulty with speed bumps as a 787b.

    I suspect you'll also REALLY struggle to differentiate between laden an unladen ground clearance when trying to find accurate measurements.

    Again, worth approaching Sony / MS to license their measured data for GT & Forza? It should at least be consistent!

    I think this may be one area where making a call on "feel" might be better, and we should give hutch a pass on absolute accuracy.  Either that or lowering the speed bumps.
  • KeatingKeating Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    Are there any low cars in the game that are supposed to be medium?
  • mikesmikes Posts: 4,021 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keating said:
    Are there any low cars in the game that are supposed to be medium?
    Plenty of older ones. So far I have:
    • RQ6 Pontiac Tempest Le Mans GTO
    • RQ7 Mazda Cosmo
    • RQ8 Porsche 911
    • RQ9 Mazda Cosmo (1975)
    • RQ9 Honda CE-Z
    • RQ10 Honda CR-X 1.6i
    • RQ10 Jaguar C-Type
    • RQ11 Honda CRX VTEC
    • RQ11 Honda Prelude 2.0Si 4WS
    • RQ13 Mazda RX-7 Convertible
    • RQ13 Fiat 124 Sport Spider
    • RQ14 Mazda RX-7 Turbo
    • RQ14 Subaru XT
    • RQ14 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS Jeff Gordon
    • RQ15 Porsche 911S 2.7
    • RQ15 Alfa Romeo GTV
    • RQ20 Mazda Cosmo
    • RQ20 Porsche Carrera 2.7 RS
    • RQ21 Renault Alpine A310 V6 Group 4/B
    • RQ23 Nissan Skyline GT-R R34
    • RQ27 Porsche 959

  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 844 admin
    We've talked about having a very low option, maybe another route would be a low-medium option to smooth out the difference between the two.
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would love to see Very low which DNF on city streets. Because right now its not a big problem to put your mclaren vs camaro convertible and lose only 50 pts.  And its Camaro, but if we take any slower car then it gonna lose to Mclaren. 

    I dont want current Medium height cars become Low.   Most of Medium height cars are useful only for City streets.  If make them low height - bye bye car, take your place in dust collection. 

    RIP Camaro Z/28
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 29
    Honestly, DNF on a street bumper is too much  but DNF at the crossing river yes!

    A Ferrari can cross a street bumper... But it may take a lot of time 
  • willcf15willcf15 Posts: 334 ✭✭✭
    TimBut said:

    I dont want current Medium height cars become Low.   Most of Medium height cars are useful only for City streets.  If make them low height - bye bye car, take your place in dust collection. 

    RIP Camaro Z/28
    I'd just like to say I agree with TimBut here. As an F2P, I've only managed to upgrade 5 Epics in the almost 2 years I've been playing this game. One is the Z/28 for city streets, which of course is no longer the case. Another is the BMW M6 to replace the Z/28 for city streets, and if that was changed to low, I've gotta say I'd be pretty salty.

    Further, from a game balance perspective, having some cars that would be "low" in real life sitting at medium increases the number of useful cars in the game, which makes the game more interesting. If all those cars on the list were changed to low, city streets would likely become F2P's bane, because it would require a very small subset of S and A classes to be remotely competitive. We already have drag races for that. Right now, city streets is where the meek with their maxed C, B and A classes can take on S-class whales, and I think losing that would be detrimental to the game as a whole.
  • joel24joel24 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭✭
    BMW M3 gts should be low (119 mm) 
    https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/bmw-m3-gts-e92-2010.html
    A45 AMG should be low as well. (112)
    https://www.autoevolution.com/cars/mercedes-benz-a45-amg-2013.html#aeng_mercedes-benz-a45-amg-2013-20-awd-7at-365-hp
    Many other mercs and bmws should be low. I think they should reduce the cut off line for ground clearance  
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 29
    Where is the cut ? Because it can go down to 115 or even 110? 
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should I just give a list of the higher level medium height cars I have? Most of them are listed above but getting the final few included will help me to leave the game.
  • TGPDTGPD Posts: 5,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23
    I found a convincing source online that tells me that (in the US at least, most developed countries should be similar) speed humps should be 3-4 inches high. This is a speed hump that is normally put in cities to slow traffic down. 

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070320152041/http://www.ite.org/traffic/hump.htm

    It is obviously archived from 2007, so standards might have changed since then, but they have only gotten lower (up to half an inch!)

    4ft is obviously 10.16cm/101.6mm. Assuming we leave 10mm for suspension travel, a ground clearance of 111mm should be able to clear a city speed hump with ease. Even with a normal supercar with 100mm ground clearance (For instance, the Jaguar XKR-S Convertible), can still clear the speed hump relatively easily without damaging the car, as shown in the Top Gear video.



    The Jag (0:52) and the Audi (3:50) are all LOW cars ingame, but they are shown to fly over the speed hump. This may damage the car in the long term yes, but how else would you drive when you're in a race? I suggest the limit be brought down to 110, maybe 105mm.

    Fun Fact: The Audi R8 Spyder V10 actually has 160mm of ground clearance, higher than most supercars, and should be classified as "MEDIUM".
  • MoogMoog Posts: 386 ✭✭✭✭
    "speed humps should be 3-4 inches high"
    Questioning the height of speed humps is a good shout. Speed humps are rated for different speeds in the UK (I purchased some for a golf course once). Around the world it's different of course, I was in Mexico last year, and my hire car (Golf Jetta) which would be a medium height car, could not go over the speed humps there (toppes) no matter what speed without grounding out, and that was on the freeways. 

    Perhaps the different tracks should have different height speed humps :)
  • DING097DING097 Posts: 46 ✭✭
    edited May 27
    TGPD said:
    I found a convincing source online that tells me that (in the US at least, most developed countries should be similar) speed humps should be 3-4 inches high. This is a speed hump that is normally put in cities to slow traffic down. 

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070320152041/http://www.ite.org/traffic/hump.htm

    It is obviously archived from 2007, so standards might have changed since then, but they have only gotten lower (up to half an inch!)

    4ft is obviously 10.16cm/101.6mm. Assuming we leave 10mm for suspension travel, a ground clearance of 111mm should be able to clear a city speed hump with ease. Even with a normal supercar with 100mm ground clearance (For instance, the Jaguar XKR-S Convertible), can still clear the speed hump relatively easily without damaging the car, as shown in the Top Gear video.



    The Jag (0:52) and the Audi (3:50) are all LOW cars ingame, but they are shown to fly over the speed hump. This may damage the car in the long term yes, but how else would you drive when you're in a race? I suggest the limit be brought down to 110, maybe 105mm.

    Fun Fact: The Audi R8 Spyder V10 actually has 160mm of ground clearance, higher than most supercars, and should be classified as "MEDIUM".
    Actually makes sense for the Audi R8 to be a medium because otherwise no one ever uses it because all of the Epic RQ30 Audis are more useful and sadly we don't have too many medium height legendaries. 
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