Late join thread1000

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Comments

  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    OMG,.. this is the moment all my 'disagree' forumers will hollar. I disagree on a proposal I made earlier.
    Well, I disagree on time restriction in general when I think of it .
    Why ?
    When you set a time limit to let's say 1h before the end of an event, the late joiners will aim for that hour. So in short you just move the problem.
    When you let Hutch set a random time you will get a lot of discussion here on the forum and players who aren't dissapointed and angree. One day Hutch put the random time on 4 minutes , another day on 6 hours. Don't like that.

    BUT:

    Just analize the problem. What does a late joiner want. To join a bracket with as less as possible players in it. There is the trick.

    What if Hutch set a minimum players in 1 bracket ? Let's say minimum 100 players (Hutch has the stats, they can set it). The later you join , the more chance you end up in a bracket that is not allowed to play for prizes (or even packs),.. just smurfing and racing winning cash and small gold.
    This restriction is very clear for all players and there is no discussion possible.
    Maybe Hutch can change the amount of minimum players according to the event.

    Daily's => 100 players
    2 day event => 200 players
    3 day event => 300 players
    4 day event => 400 players.

    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    Not generating new brackets X amount of time before the end of the event won’t just move the problem as you won’t win with a 1-0 for example, which I think most would agree is the main annoyance, not those entering 20 minutes from the end with 20 races. 

    One of the problems I see happening with it is that if they set it at say 1 hour before the end, everyone who late joins, whether that’s last hour, -20, -5, or last seconds, will all just join 5 seconds before the cut off, the strain on the server will be multiplied severely and worst case scenario could be down for the rest of the event. 🤷🏻‍♂️
  • StrixStrix Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    Fixing late joining without fixing the reason late joining exists (some brackets are extremely more difficult than others), would be a huge mistake in my opinion. It would be a band aid, not a solution to be proud of. Setting a time limit or something similar might help, but without a change to the point or bracket system this game would still be more about finding the right bracket than to do fight hard.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9
    You could argue that basically the game has run its course, and is now best left to P2W whales and  newbies. 
  • rucoporucopo Posts: 9
    edited July 9
    BoxtaS said:
    You could argue that basically the game has run its course, and is now best left to P2W whales and  newbies. 
    Definitely not. It has huge potential. But you need the right people behind it. Hutch had a great game idea, which is underutilized. They have to learn the hard way not to be greedy and listen to their customers. Also, some better game testing is required before every new update release. Hutch, you have become a successful developer right now with a lot of fans. Players will not easily let you get away with things like this, like a smaller indy game developer could. 
    You managed to get licensing from many manufacturers for top drives, thats a success in the mobile gaming world. You also managed to get the rights for f1 !! Damn, thats the success. But then you threw all this progress away by releasing a game like f1 manager (top drives was good in the beginning, cant complain) ! Its not even good enough for an early alpha version ! I doubt there is even a fraction of the player base remaining compared to the 1st week of release ! 
    Just try to please your audience. Adjust the game economy, utilize experienced players’ ideas, help smaller players. You may earn less ££ in the beginning but things will be better than before very soon ! 
    Post edited by rucopo on
  • milewski1015milewski1015 Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    OMG,.. this is the moment all my 'disagree' forumers will hollar. I disagree on a proposal I made earlier.
    Well, I disagree on time restriction in general when I think of it .
    Why ?
    When you set a time limit to let's say 1h before the end of an event, the late joiners will aim for that hour. So in short you just move the problem.
    When you let Hutch set a random time you will get a lot of discussion here on the forum and players who aren't dissapointed and angree. One day Hutch put the random time on 4 minutes , another day on 6 hours. Don't like that.

    BUT:

    Just analize the problem. What does a late joiner want. To join a bracket with as less as possible players in it. There is the trick.

    What if Hutch set a minimum players in 1 bracket ? Let's say minimum 100 players (Hutch has the stats, they can set it). The later you join , the more chance you end up in a bracket that is not allowed to play for prizes (or even packs),.. just smurfing and racing winning cash and small gold.
    This restriction is very clear for all players and there is no discussion possible.
    Maybe Hutch can change the amount of minimum players according to the event.

    Daily's => 100 players
    2 day event => 200 players
    3 day event => 300 players
    4 day event => 400 players.

    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    I understand your solution based on the problem at hand, but eliminating the possibility of winning any sort of prize is not the answer. Theoretically, what if nobody late joined and everybody entered from the start. What happens when the brackets fill up and a new bracket has to be created? Say that one doesn’t reach the 100 player mark by the end, even though the players joined early. If that were me, I’d be absolutely livid if I raced hard for three days only to find out my bracket didn’t hit 100 players and all the time, effort, and resources spent was for nothing. 
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:


    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    I do like one thing. That a system that punishes very-late joiners in a possibly harsh way doesn't bother you. It doesn't bother me either.

    I have employed this tactic, don't get me wrong. I don't hate the player, I hate the game. If the game punishes/prevents this behaviour it is better off for it.
  • BasilBasil Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    OMG,.. this is the moment all my 'disagree' forumers will hollar. I disagree on a proposal I made earlier.
    Well, I disagree on time restriction in general when I think of it .
    Why ?
    When you set a time limit to let's say 1h before the end of an event, the late joiners will aim for that hour. So in short you just move the problem.
    When you let Hutch set a random time you will get a lot of discussion here on the forum and players who aren't dissapointed and angree. One day Hutch put the random time on 4 minutes , another day on 6 hours. Don't like that.

    BUT:

    Just analize the problem. What does a late joiner want. To join a bracket with as less as possible players in it. There is the trick.

    What if Hutch set a minimum players in 1 bracket ? Let's say minimum 100 players (Hutch has the stats, they can set it). The later you join , the more chance you end up in a bracket that is not allowed to play for prizes (or even packs),.. just smurfing and racing winning cash and small gold.
    This restriction is very clear for all players and there is no discussion possible.
    Maybe Hutch can change the amount of minimum players according to the event.

    Daily's => 100 players
    2 day event => 200 players
    3 day event => 300 players
    4 day event => 400 players.

    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    I understand your solution based on the problem at hand, but eliminating the possibility of winning any sort of prize is not the answer. Theoretically, what if nobody late joined and everybody entered from the start. What happens when the brackets fill up and a new bracket has to be created? Say that one doesn’t reach the 100 player mark by the end, even though the players joined early. If that were me, I’d be absolutely livid if I raced hard for three days only to find out my bracket didn’t hit 100 players and all the time, effort, and resources spent was for nothing. 


    Yes, that is the downfall of the idea. I had this also in mind but I think we have to find a solution that Hutch does not have to rethink the complete system as we will have problems with that. This seems rather easy to program and introduced fast. When I'm in the latest 100 , I would be mad as well but at least I know what I'm into.

    The best idea would be that Hutch opens let's say 200 brackets and that they fill in simmultaniously . In that way you don't have a bracket of 100 people but maybe 200 brackets of 352 people. But that is more difficult to program I guess

  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Basil said:
    OMG,.. this is the moment all my 'disagree' forumers will hollar. I disagree on a proposal I made earlier.
    Well, I disagree on time restriction in general when I think of it .
    Why ?
    When you set a time limit to let's say 1h before the end of an event, the late joiners will aim for that hour. So in short you just move the problem.
    When you let Hutch set a random time you will get a lot of discussion here on the forum and players who aren't dissapointed and angree. One day Hutch put the random time on 4 minutes , another day on 6 hours. Don't like that.

    BUT:

    Just analize the problem. What does a late joiner want. To join a bracket with as less as possible players in it. There is the trick.

    What if Hutch set a minimum players in 1 bracket ? Let's say minimum 100 players (Hutch has the stats, they can set it). The later you join , the more chance you end up in a bracket that is not allowed to play for prizes (or even packs),.. just smurfing and racing winning cash and small gold.
    This restriction is very clear for all players and there is no discussion possible.
    Maybe Hutch can change the amount of minimum players according to the event.

    Daily's => 100 players
    2 day event => 200 players
    3 day event => 300 players
    4 day event => 400 players.

    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    I understand your solution based on the problem at hand, but eliminating the possibility of winning any sort of prize is not the answer. Theoretically, what if nobody late joined and everybody entered from the start. What happens when the brackets fill up and a new bracket has to be created? Say that one doesn’t reach the 100 player mark by the end, even though the players joined early. If that were me, I’d be absolutely livid if I raced hard for three days only to find out my bracket didn’t hit 100 players and all the time, effort, and resources spent was for nothing. 


    Yes, that is the downfall of the idea. I had this also in mind but I think we have to find a solution that Hutch does not have to rethink the complete system as we will have problems with that. This seems rather easy to program and introduced fast. When I'm in the latest 100 , I would be mad as well but at least I know what I'm into.

    The best idea would be that Hutch opens let's say 200 brackets and that they fill in simmultaniously . In that way you don't have a bracket of 100 people but maybe 200 brackets of 352 people. But that is more difficult to program I guess

    The argument against that will be that not everybody has the time to enter on the first day and they wouldn't be able to catch up. At least it was the last time we talked about similar solutions
  • BasilBasil Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Basil said:
    OMG,.. this is the moment all my 'disagree' forumers will hollar. I disagree on a proposal I made earlier.
    Well, I disagree on time restriction in general when I think of it .
    Why ?
    When you set a time limit to let's say 1h before the end of an event, the late joiners will aim for that hour. So in short you just move the problem.
    When you let Hutch set a random time you will get a lot of discussion here on the forum and players who aren't dissapointed and angree. One day Hutch put the random time on 4 minutes , another day on 6 hours. Don't like that.

    BUT:

    Just analize the problem. What does a late joiner want. To join a bracket with as less as possible players in it. There is the trick.

    What if Hutch set a minimum players in 1 bracket ? Let's say minimum 100 players (Hutch has the stats, they can set it). The later you join , the more chance you end up in a bracket that is not allowed to play for prizes (or even packs),.. just smurfing and racing winning cash and small gold.
    This restriction is very clear for all players and there is no discussion possible.
    Maybe Hutch can change the amount of minimum players according to the event.

    Daily's => 100 players
    2 day event => 200 players
    3 day event => 300 players
    4 day event => 400 players.

    No exeption and yes, sometimes harsh for the ones that are in this last bracket but hey,.. they should have entered earlier.

    What do you thin guys ???
    I understand your solution based on the problem at hand, but eliminating the possibility of winning any sort of prize is not the answer. Theoretically, what if nobody late joined and everybody entered from the start. What happens when the brackets fill up and a new bracket has to be created? Say that one doesn’t reach the 100 player mark by the end, even though the players joined early. If that were me, I’d be absolutely livid if I raced hard for three days only to find out my bracket didn’t hit 100 players and all the time, effort, and resources spent was for nothing. 


    Yes, that is the downfall of the idea. I had this also in mind but I think we have to find a solution that Hutch does not have to rethink the complete system as we will have problems with that. This seems rather easy to program and introduced fast. When I'm in the latest 100 , I would be mad as well but at least I know what I'm into.

    The best idea would be that Hutch opens let's say 200 brackets and that they fill in simmultaniously . In that way you don't have a bracket of 100 people but maybe 200 brackets of 352 people. But that is more difficult to program I guess

    The argument against that will be that not everybody has the time to enter on the first day and they wouldn't be able to catch up. At least it was the last time we talked about similar solutions

    Isn't the idea of 'banning' the late entries just to have them joined ASAP ? You can't predict when a new bracket will open (or am I wrong?) , so you need to be quick and race al lot to get T1-T2 or T3. Isn't that the idea behind this game and the idea of playing TD ?
  • BasilBasil Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    O__VER said:
    Basil said:
    200 brackets of 352 people
    Oh man, if only that many people played. With 200 brackets, I think we'd be lucky to get 35.2 people in them.

    That's something I would like to know. How many people play TD ? :-)
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil, there are more reasons to latejoining events than just a easy prize grab. Sometimes people just dont have the time to play, so it would put them in a real disadvantage when instant joining is required, also often people fuse their hand, so they couldnt start right away.
    People in the game... my guess would be around 15k, deffo not more than 20k who play halfway active (looking at the number of finals brackets).
  • BasilBasil Posts: 258 ✭✭✭
    edited July 10

    Andreas,


    I understand your point of view. Personnaly I do start (as I can't wait) and fuse inbetween . It is not like I have 5 cards that need fusing mostly just 1 or 2 and the other cars are fine enough to start and take a position in the ranking (and of course earn already cash). You can join as well,.. damn good smurfing hand when you still need to fuse :-).

    That people don't have time , same here sometimes (damn wife and kids :-) ) but then in my honest opinion, you have to accept that you are not able to become T1-2-3-4 and you just race to earn cash. I accept this when I have an envent in which I can't race a lot.

    And the instant joining, well,... it would be max 99 people (when the bracket must be at least 100 people) , I'm sure that, with 15k people playing you will not have this too often. Of course , when it is a final it s*cks when you are one of them.

    I agree to blaim the game not the players thinking but when you want to solve this in the near future this seems to me one of the easiest way to do (and without getting the programming of Hutch into problem :-) )


    PS: Made my point of view over this topic, don't want this to become my personal thread :-)

  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
    I've, probably noticeably, not posted on the forum for almost a week I think. I uninstalled the game on friday. I reinstalled on sunday in time to late join the finals. Managed a few races in the last few minutes despite the 10 second prize card pulls etc. Finished T3.

    The game has remained installed but with the economy as it stands I am purely late join on everything and only access the game for ad gold, challenge and an odd 1 race club entry.

    Late joining should not be an option, but whilst it is an option within the game provided people should not be punished for that. Poor form Hutch. Really poor.

    My conundrum is that if late join is "fixed", as I agree it should be, and the prize board economy isn't rectified then that will most likely be trigger to properly quitting for good...and from the sentiment I'm reading on this forum I doubt very much I will be the only one.

    My solution for what its worth:

    Events should open for pre-registration when they appear as upcoming events. You want to play it, you register. You've got say 48 hrs or so to register so this allows for casual players to enter too. When the event starts all registered players are assigned into brackets evenly. Everyone is in the same boat. No late joining. This pre-registration for events is a common theme in many other mobile games I've played over the years.

    Prize boards, I've posted about before. You can't keep increasing the amount of cars available by hundreds of cars and CUT the amount players earn. That's the exact opposite of inflation... Get the value back up to at least 8k per board. Keep the common and uncommons, I actually like that addition. 3 each of rare, uncommon & common. 2xgold (5 each ideally) leaving 4x1000 cash to balance. I'd love a single slot to be there somewhere but it would be too much on every board and probably require a lot of effort to set dynamic boards making every 10th board or so give a slot.

    Tl;dr I quit, reinstalled and went late join only. If hutch kills late join without fixing economy I and most likely many others will just drift out of the game. Fix late joining, but only with an economy fix too.
    The sad thing is they either don’t care that you will quit or bank on it so that you shut up.
  • TGPDTGPD Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dude @Ultimate I think your computer has a virus
  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah sorry about that, I’ve been trying to make posts for last 4 days but everything went to the spam filter. I try and post stuff from my draft to see if I’m back on, usually when I get locked out like that I can get back in a day or two.
  • RuvlaRuvla Posts: 70 ✭✭
    edited July 10
    As already mentioned, the problem with current brackets mechanics that there is a random (that player cannot influence) with bracket assignment, that leads to "unfair" prize distribution (when people with weaker hand get better prizes).

    Another problem is server performance at the end of the event, due to mechanics (actually it can be solved very easy).

    We can combine both problems into single solution:
    1) instead of one ending hour - create brackets, that close every hour. This will allow to spread load throughout the day.
    2) give players ability to choose, what hour they can finish event by selecting bracket on their own. This will move random component of late joining to player's own decision. So responsibility of bracket choice will be on the player himself.

    Plus I believe people with inconvenient time zones will be happy.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The truth is Hutch haven’t changed any rules, or their policy on late joining, they’ve never supported it or given support when an issue has arisen for a player taking advantage of it, I haven’t checked back but I’m pretty sure this has been conveyed by them on here. 

    They won’t draw a line in the sand and say for instance you have to do X amount of races, or join X amount of time before the end to get help from support if an issue arises as it would be exploited.

    A decision needs to be taken on a case by case basis imo and that’s what they’ve done. 

    It’s pretty obvious where the line was drawn here regarding join time and effort, about 4hrs from the end of the event, nobody from Hutch is saying you have to join on the first or second day. 

    Saying all that, personally I think it’s harsh that people that put in a decent effort, 20 races etc and would more than likely of finished tier 1 irrespective of join time had the server not went down didn’t get the reward. 

    A general apology and explanation over the issue wouldn’t have gone amiss either. 

  • sinnersinner Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can't join untill Sunday for this event. I mean I could join, but I wouldn't be able to play Friday night, all day Saturday and until about 1pm on the Sunday, when I'm home. I have a good hand, certainly good enough for T2.

    Should I be punished for joining Sunday afternoon? It's not all about late joining to get an easy ride. A lot of people have commitments that take precedence over this game.

    @Hutch_Tim some clarity would be appreciated here. Its hard to play the game , when you don't know the rules.
  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sinner said:
    I can't join untill Sunday for this event. I mean I could join, but I wouldn't be able to play Friday night, all day Saturday and until about 1pm on the Sunday, when I'm home. I have a good hand, certainly good enough for T2.

    Should I be punished for joining Sunday afternoon? It's not all about late joining to get an easy ride. A lot of people have commitments that take precedence over this game.

    @Hutch_Tim some clarity would be appreciated here. Its hard to play the game , when you don't know the rules.
    you know the rules, you just don't know the internal policies
  • MrpiratepeteMrpiratepete Posts: 620 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It’s pretty obvious where the line was drawn here regarding join time and effort, about 4hrs from the end of the event, nobody from Hutch is saying you have to join on the first or second day. 
    Tell me your opinion on what difference it makes if I join 2 or 4 hours prior to the end? What advantage do I get? Because Hutch-Support already stated It’s not their business to know what advantage someone gets through this tactic.

    Lets take those 2 times as an example:
    In my opinion the joining time doesnt matter if its in the hours range. You will usually get a 3/4 full bracket with either of those joining times. And what if I play more games with 2 hours left (buying tickets) than with 4 hours left? Who should get compensated? The pesky late joiner who has more games  or the lazy "early" joiner with less games?

    Late joining in the last minutes to seconds is the problem we have. Not in the last hours.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have to adapt sinner, how dare you to ask for clarification?! You gotta feel the spirit of the game and play as it is intended. Whatever this is. No need to join anymore, the latejoin "we dont answer your tickets" clock already started.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It’s pretty obvious where the line was drawn here regarding join time and effort, about 4hrs from the end of the event, nobody from Hutch is saying you have to join on the first or second day. 
    Tell me your opinion on what difference it makes if I join 2 or 4 hours prior to the end? What advantage do I get? Because Hutch-Support already stated It’s not their business to know what advantage someone gets through this tactic.

    Lets take those 2 times as an example:
    In my opinion the joining time doesnt matter if its in the hours range. You will usually get a 3/4 full bracket with either of those joining times. And what if I play more games with 2 hours left (buying tickets) than with 4 hours left? Who should get compensated? The pesky late joiner who has more games  or the lazy "early" joiner with less games?

    Late joining in the last minutes to seconds is the problem we have. Not in the last hours.
    Imo none. 
  • 0171801718 Posts: 153 ✭✭✭
    Suggestion:

    Dont give players the 5 free tickets if they join 24 hours after an event has started.
    (If this idea has been posted before, please excuse me)

    Pros:
    - I hope it is easy to implement.
    - It doesn't punish players badly who join like 12 hours before the end of an event, as they have some time to refresh tickets.
    - It can be neutralized by spending gold (I wonder if 100 gold for 5 tickets might be to cheap anyway), which is an interest of Hutch.
    - It puts a definitive price on late joining. If you late join u almost automatically pay a fee of 100 gold. If u require 10 races to secure your spot, that will be 200 gold. OFC, a decent prize car is worth much more, but if late joining is a gamble (what's your success rate?), an entry fee might decrease the expectancy value and thus demotivate late joiners. I think this is the crucial point here and I'd like to hear your feedback.
    - if players respond to the lack of tickets by joining like 5 hours before an event ends, it distributes their activities more evenly which hopefully helps the server's performance.

    Feel free to help me find the Cons!
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