Hutch, why are you afraid of us earning money?

SchmidtiSchmidti Posts: 183 ✭✭✭
Hutch, this question estin really broods me.
What is wrong with us earning ig cash (not talking about gold)? 

With this game you've created a farming monster. You gathered a playerbase which likes to farm. 
Every time you cut us down on the farming income, you will **** us off. You've seen this with the removal of the daylie and you see it now with the cut on the prize boards. 

But i just don't get your thinking behind it.

Farming keeps us in the game. Farming keeps us motivated. Farming gives us the illusion that we can get all those nice cars. Farming kepps many of us also spending money to get that extra boost sometimes. 
Why do you to stop that? I just dont get it. 

Don't argue with the higher event end prizes. This doesn't compensate the loss in farming. 

I was really exited to see the update with those new cars. After just one day the only feeling that is left is that i will never get those... 

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Comments

  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 937 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they had only lowered the daily event and kept the rest probably no one would have complained. decreasing all prizeboard is just plain wrong. like most what we have seen this year in the game... bugs, more bugs, halfthought ideas, lots of sweettalk about wrong decisions.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,845 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD01055 said:
    Well said, and I agree with everything. One thing to add, ironically, I’m now even less likely to push for the upper tiers. In the current missing piece event, I could upgrade my standard tyred SR Buick, but I’m not even taking it beyond 000, because cash is a rarer commodity now. There’s simply no payback. Smurfing is now even more important, you won’t kill it.

    Recently, for whatever reason, Hutch seem incapable of putting themselves in the mindset of the players, it seems they’re a bit out of touch. 
    Yeh I’m using my prize car GNX (first time ever) as I haven’t got the cash or cars to upgrade the standard tyre one, just about scraped enough together to max my rendezvous yesterday. 
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The concept of reducing the value of prize boards but increasing the tier prizes to discourage smurfing was a sound idea very poorly implemented (rather like the auto save feature).  

    With the prize boards as they are now, T1 in a regular event like TBT would need to be CF, 500 gold & 100,000 cash. T2 Ceramic, 250 &.... 100,000 cash! Even then, farming money would still be reduced.
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    edited June 26

    I think Hutch should lower the RQ on events but make more 'difficult' requierements,.. make you more try and think what cars to use. Now it is more like putting 5 'A' cars and that's it. I like events like the Volvo-buick thing. IMO there should be more events like RQ100 and requirements 1xBMW, 1xMercedes, 1xRAM and 2 free to choose. This would be more fun than RQ130 and 5x German cars. When the event prices are as big as now I think there would be more farmers trying T1, T2 as they would have better cards. P2W players have more variation .

    In the end,.. smurfers are farming to have better cars so that they can compete in the events,... Hutch should make it more 'equal'. The difference between p2w and smurfers should be the varation on cars as p2w have a bigger (better?) garage.

  • miggemigge Posts: 142 ✭✭✭
    thats the problem. less money in farming and more cars. i even had no money to upgrade all the french rennaissance cars. now im struggling with german rennaissance cars. how do i upgrade the cars without fusing cars and less money than befor?

  • sinnersinner Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You need to buy cash packs silly 🙄
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    migge said:
    thats the problem. less money in farming and more cars. i even had no money to upgrade all the french rennaissance cars. now im struggling with german rennaissance cars. how do i upgrade the cars without fusing cars and less money than befor?


    You could sell the cars you don't want and use the cash for upgrading. I prefer cars as with every update the new F-E-D cars are then for 'free'. And I like this game for turning cars cards and not money :-)
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    IMO Hutch is pushing more and more to use 'B' cars the lowest and putting more and more 4WD standard cars in the game. By setting the RQ to 100 or above the smurfing guys have no chance on having a go for T1 or T2. The RQ has to go down , in my opinion. That will increase the fun in the game. P2w guys can still use their Bugatti's and Maxed 'S' cars but have to use lower cards to compensate.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think what he is saying is that for a few months all events are in the 100+ rq band, making D/E/F cars kinda useless.
    I have to agree, once in a while a low rq event would be nice. They were too frequent before, but now all D/E/F are just collecting dust (apart from club racing but why would anyone enjoy clubs?)
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    edited June 26
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


    I still don't see how this relates to the problem at hand
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


    I still don't see how this relates to the problem at hand
    Fair point
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    edited June 26
    Basil said:
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


    I still don't see how this relates to the problem at hand

    Why do you want to earn money ? => To upgrade your cars and have a better garage to compete in the events, right?

    So,.. when Hutch do what I propose,.. then you will not have every time that feeling you can't compete any more (or less than the early days).

    It is obvious (and also understandable) that Hutch want to keep the best cars for those who pay,.. but now Hutch is more and more giving all the events to the p2w guys by setting the RQ very high. Farmers feel they are not understood because the money is dropped down, but actually that is not the issue. Farmers have (almost) no chance on winning events as the RQ is set too high for them.

    Or you play the game just for farming sake ? ,.. then I have said nothing :-)


    Does that make sense or am I wrong ?

  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Basil said:
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


    I still don't see how this relates to the problem at hand

    Why do you want to earn money ? => To upgrade your cars and have a better garage to compete in the events, right?

    So,.. when Hutch do what I propose,.. then you will not have every time that feeling you can't compete any more (or less than the early days).

    Or you play the game just for farming sake ? ,.. then I have said nothing :-)


    Or am I wrong ?

    kinda. for everyday events I'm using cash to upgrade lesser cars (up to and including ultras) as food is easy to come by. When we come to high level events I'm only upgrading for finals or some very special events. Lower rq events would still require me to max the same cars I'm regularly max now. No change in cash requirements from my perspective.

    Not to mention I want to use the top of my garage and clubs are full of low rq events
  • BasilBasil Posts: 253 ✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    Basil said:
    Ultimate said:
    Basil, if you don’t mind me saying, this is the 4th consecutive post I’ve read of yours in which I don’t know what the hell you are going on about.


    Hi Ultimate,.. I didn't know I had a fan !!! :-)


    TD42792 is right + It seems that we all have forgotten what the game should be about : racing against each other to win prices. Smurfing is 1 way of collecting money/cars to have a good garage and for the lazy players (like I am) we can use gold to fill our garage. Hutch has lost this idea and is more focused on the B-A-S cars and events but I'm not that keen on this idea (even as a p2w player).

    I want a game where I have to think and experiment with my garage, not just use the highest rated cars and win with 2 fingers in my nose. When Hutch is fixing this (imo by lowering the RQ for events, so that smurfers can join and have the feeling they can compete and p2w to actually think what cars to use).

    Just look at the Daily's: What fun in choosing cars is that!! RQ150,.. All Bugatti's, 918 and oh yes,.. when it is snow my best Offroad cars every single time again and again,...This is farming for me,.. no fun at all.

    Plane English,.. understanable I think,.. might use a higher math book to translate :-) :-) :-)


    I still don't see how this relates to the problem at hand

    Why do you want to earn money ? => To upgrade your cars and have a better garage to compete in the events, right?

    So,.. when Hutch do what I propose,.. then you will not have every time that feeling you can't compete any more (or less than the early days).

    Or you play the game just for farming sake ? ,.. then I have said nothing :-)


    Or am I wrong ?

    kinda. for everyday events I'm using cash to upgrade lesser cars (up to and including ultras) as food is easy to come by. When we come to high level events I'm only upgrading for finals or some very special events. Lower rq events would still require me to max the same cars I'm regularly max now. No change in cash requirements from my perspective.

    Not to mention I want to use the top of my garage and clubs are full of low rq events


    I understand. But when the RQ would be lower and you upgrade the same cars, you would have more chance on becomming T1-T2, isn't it and the game would satisfy you more right ?

    Of course I want to use the top of my garage as well, what else is the point of having them,.. but not 5xS30 or 3xS27 + 2xA24 in 1 event. Now I only use the E-F cars in the personal event (don(t know the word for that event).

    I don't do clubs as I don't know where it goes when I race. I don't enjoy that one. It's a pitty because I would like to join with other players to compete each other but not like this.

    What about this idea (the last one on this thread,.. I promise :-)). To have events where you are allowed to use 1 car from each category , so 1xS, 1xA,.... or when you don't have an S you can use 2xA , 1xB, 1xC ,... with an RQ that is the sum of the average of each category?

    I'm just looking for a way to have you farmers still have the feeling that they can compete and me having a challange to find the right set of cars for the event (besides using just my highest ranked).

  • miggemigge Posts: 142 ✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    migge said:
    thats the problem. less money in farming and more cars. i even had no money to upgrade all the french rennaissance cars. now im struggling with german rennaissance cars. how do i upgrade the cars without fusing cars and less money than befor?


    You could sell the cars you don't want and use the cash for upgrading. I prefer cars as with every update the new F-E-D cars are then for 'free'. And I like this game for turning cars cards and not money :-)
     thats what i am doing. but selling F cars and only getting 250$ per cash card
  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    PS: I still think that the whole smarfing phenomenon came from the awkward "star and card turning" system. It's not fair to punish someone for barely beating another player at the top of the bracket, and rewardnig someone for beating the **** out of another player at the bottom. Finding the balance there would be the key to eliminate (or at least decrease the importance of) smarfing imho.
    this, I think, hits the nail on the head.
  • NumarNumar Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thread of the year (after the IG name list ^^) , agreed on all points , well said 👍
  • malsmals Posts: 132 ✭✭✭
    Pay to play is coming!
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 26
    @Ozzman i did suggest about a year ago to move from the current system to a star for each 50pts, capped at 3 stars.

    Fell on deaf ears.


  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭✭
    justjukie said:
    I’m fully expecting two day events to be for CF rewards in the not to distant future. 
    I agree with this. But it still presents the issue that everyone is echoing in ALL these other threads and I'm sure you will agree with, which is all that will do is expediate the already large gap between F2P and P2W players. All the P2W will have the wallerts and garages to soak up the top 2 tiers and continue to grow while all the F2P will now have less cash to even make a play for those top tiers. I understand Hutch is a business, if they tighten the noose on F2P being able to get cash and gold as easy maybe, just maybe, we buy cash/gold/cars. I'm not sure if they are running business analytics that show something different than how we act and talk on the forums but I, for one, would not opt to purchase anything and just move on to a different timesink game.

    I've quite enjoyed this game for almost 2 years. The first 6-8 months I had no idea about smurfing. I would play a hand in an event, see I was super outclassed, let that hand sit til the end of the event and collect whatever tier reward I got. Once I found smurfing, I started making cash. It felt incredible. I could compete against people who had obviously put large amounts of money into the game. But I couldn't compete EVERY event. That playerbase still stood out in certain events, especially finals, where they rightfully should. And you know what, both I and them were happy I bet. The whale felt happy cause they were crushing T1 and T2 finishes and getting a prize car payoff or a CF pack with lots of cash and gold; BUT I, as F2P, was also happy that was somewhat competitive finally after almost a year. After the American Dream patch dropped I was able to invest lots of cash and gold into packs that I had saved. I finished T1 in one for once and T2 in two others. I was also extremely competitive for the Demon to my surprise eventually finishing T2 there as well. 

    I don't post much when the wrath is already being distributed by others who have been on the forum longer about changes that effect F2P because I understand it's a business. But up until the introduction of clubs, I would wager to say most of F2P and P2W were pretty happy with the gold/cash economy. I think us smurfers knew we could compete to an extent but understood whales would most likely win more times than not. Whales were happy. Smurfers were happy. Understand that the majority of us will NOT purchase in-game purchases to fill the missing cash or gold coming. We will just move on as the gap between P2W and F2P grows with each hit smurfing takes. 
    Well said.

    What I dont understand is that the more f2p players are competitive, the more it should push p2w players to buy packs (up to a point), so Hutch’s interest should also be to make it work for f2p. F2p also generates ad revenues.

    Reading about all these opinions and experiences, I am now convinced Hutch has a real problem with smarfing, beyond the fact that it is “not in the spirit of the game”. The division they are trying to address is the gap between smarfers and the (majority of?) non smarfers. If non smarfers do not know about smarfing or do not want to engage in it, it would seem natural they do not hang around very long as they cannot see any hope of progress.

    So they are trying to re-unite smarfers and non-smarfers by killing smarfing (or nerfing it at least). But they need to offer an alternative for hardcore f2p (a lot of the people on this forum). They thought clubs would be the solution, turns out it was not. Now they are trying with lower smarfing rewards and higher end of event rewards... hardcore f2p say it does not work for them either.

    I really do not know what I would do if I were in their shoes. It feels like the sorcerer’s apprentice, where they made a unintentional mistake to start with and everything they do to try and fix it makes it worse every time.

    Smarfing was nice as it was, but I can understand how it might be an issue discouraging a large part of the more casual player base. If that is what Hutch is trying to address, then they should tell us smarfing is threatening the game as a whole. If it is not the case, then they really should leave it as it was. Metas in games are often unintended, and that’s ok too.
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