General Discussion

Economy balance update, 28th June 2019

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  • starpino77starpino77 Member Posts: 44 ✭✭
    The matter of fact is I cannot upgrade my red car anymore. No yellow car, no money for upgrading them, no money to buy ceramic to feed red cars. There is no stat can deny this.
    Money are vital to the game, just sell carbon or ceramics for events and let players upgrade or buy cars with money. There is no other option. 
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    I've now taken to smarfing non-daily events more often (more specifically smarfing for about 50% of it before then working my way up, without going straight to my strongest hand - I think that maybe needs its own term...)

    the 'Half-Smarf' I'll take my free CF now please  ;) 

    In all seriousness, thank you @[email protected]_Tim for your long, but riveting post. I read it fully and with interest. I like it when you bring the stats out - I accept that the feeling and the numbers don't always align so it is a difficult job you guys have. It's interesting to know what data you guys are seeing. I can't be the only one curious about my own stats actually. 

    Regarding clubs though, I have been one of the vocal ones about how I find it boring, and that feeling has only intensified after a week-long binge using the gold booster. I have reverted back to only playing just enough to get my 50XP. 

    I think a lot of the anger was about earning less money in the game. This has been mitigated with additional income coming elsewhere, namely, end-of-event cash boosts, and cash in the weekly challenge going up significantly as well. 

    If turning prize cards wasn't linked to your score but simply winning I think smurfing would be virtually eliminated. I can at least say I would stop. It would also help us clear more boards, and feel like we're back up to previous levels of earning. We would need a sell all button for QOL though!

    Again, thanks for your post. 



  • BasilBasil Member Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    edited July 13
    What I think might help is that now and then there pops-ups C or even a B card in the card turning 'game'. I realize it can't take to many times but once in a month time (or 1 time out of 50 sheets or 100 sheets). It will keep up the spirit of turning them :-).

    I don't know why Hutch wants us to view trailers of other games (do they get money for this?), but maybe they can double the cash of a card sheet when you first agree on watching a trailer ? I might be tempted :wink:
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    @Hutch_Tim
    thank you taking the time to research the topic and write such a detailed answer. I really appreciate that you keep in contact with us.

    It might be entirely correct, that the cash flow is more or less similar if you look deep into the numbers. But here's the thing, TD is not a model of economy, we're not perfectly rational actors all the time. The game feels significantly more grindy, feels less fun, feels like we're earning less. You can't expect us to do a math homework on our income to convince ourselves that, hmm okay, my earnings are only 2% down under my standard routine therefore I still like the game.

    If it doesn't feel fun we'll stop doing it.

    - I wondered exactly how badly incomes were hit given how disappointed some people were by the change - it sounded like they had dropped by 50% or something, but it's not that extreme. If I exclude the 1 out of the 7 forumers who stopped playing entirely for a day, the average drop in cash earned/day among the rest is 14%
    - So then it seems like efficiency must be what feels worse, but among those 6 who stayed active, cash-per-match dropped 15%, cash-per-minute (more important?) dropped just 4%

    So because I felt so disillusioned with the changes to the point I uninstalled the game for over a day you're just going to discount my figures entirely? Well, that's disappointing. I have no problem with you publishing my stats. Maybe I'm an extreme outlier but I feel like I've gone from playing hours upon hours a day earning 100k+ most days to literally single race clubs 5 or 6 times a day and late joining every event. In fact todays daily is the 1st event I entered to smarf a bit just to see if I can be bothered anymore. But, no, you're right, I stopped playing for 1 day so ignore the hell out of me.  :(
  • TNThomasTNThomas Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    @Hutch_Tim
    thank you taking the time to research the topic and write such a detailed answer. I really appreciate that you keep in contact with us.

    It might be entirely correct, that the cash flow is more or less similar if you look deep into the numbers. But here's the thing, TD is not a model of economy, we're not perfectly rational actors all the time. The game feels significantly more grindy, feels less fun, feels like we're earning less. You can't expect us to do a math homework on our income to convince ourselves that, hmm okay, my earnings are only 2% down under my standard routine therefore I still like the game.

    If it doesn't feel fun we'll stop doing it.

    - I wondered exactly how badly incomes were hit given how disappointed some people were by the change - it sounded like they had dropped by 50% or something, but it's not that extreme. If I exclude the 1 out of the 7 forumers who stopped playing entirely for a day, the average drop in cash earned/day among the rest is 14%
    - So then it seems like efficiency must be what feels worse, but among those 6 who stayed active, cash-per-match dropped 15%, cash-per-minute (more important?) dropped just 4%

    So because I felt so disillusioned with the changes to the point I uninstalled the game for over a day you're just going to discount my figures entirely? Well, that's disappointing. I have no problem with you publishing my stats. Maybe I'm an extreme outlier but I feel like I've gone from playing hours upon hours a day earning 100k+ most days to literally single race clubs 5 or 6 times a day and late joining every event. In fact todays daily is the 1st event I entered to smarf a bit just to see if I can be bothered anymore. But, no, you're right, I stopped playing for 1 day so ignore the hell out of me.  :(
    If I would do that in university, just exclude the data set I don't like, my professor would be get mad. However, 'we' seem to like it (14 likes on Tim's post as I am writing this). So I personally think the fact 1 out of 7 long-time players stopped playing is even more impressive/striking than the data of the other 6 players.

    I am currently playing once a day on average, just to enter all events to get the rewards. If this stays this way, I will lose interest in the game, which I would really dislike, since it 
  • TNThomasTNThomas Member Posts: 539 ✭✭✭✭
    I think the likes just show appreciation for someone from Hutch responding to the community, not agreement with all the written stuff.
    What all these numbers dont show and measure is the fun. At least for me that went down rapidly, grinding clubs for pocketchange in cash sucks out my soul. There is no connection to the clubevents, players, their hands.
    For the first time in 1,5 years i run out of SR food. I try the way the game as intended, finish T1/T2 but still can barely upgrade anything or buy new packs.It became pretty dry.
    Then I understood it uncorrectly, I am sorry! Thanks for the explanation.
  • jczerojczero Member Posts: 655 ✭✭✭✭
    I witnessed 2 long term players deleting the game this month, I can tell many more will follow, maybe that’s the long term plan you projected @Hutch_Tim @Hutch_Robin? For proof, just ask Matt, he sees our activities
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I know another long time player who has quit as well
  • MSRZ23MSRZ23 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭✭
    Does this silence mean that good prize cards are not coming back then?
  • mauro07mauro07 Member Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it's not funny, clubs or events... they only want $$$$ from players... but they kill the game... prize are too low... increase the money in events? and gold? maybe no 3 day events... are too long and when you are rq150 the hands are similar...
  • AvengedAvenged Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭
    SSV said:
    It was interesting to observe my bracket in the 8C finals:

    - The top 8 had clearly made the most of the 15CF and were running multiple legendaries. Their hands were so much better than everyone else’s that it was almost like there was a wall between them and those below. I’m not sure they even needed to race in the last 15 minutes.
    - From positions 8 to 30 there were a few grinders with hands that were obviously not good enough and they were mostly inactive in the final minutes as a result.
    - Below 30th position the majority of hands I saw were people running cars at stock. I assume that the nerfed prize boards are the main cause of this.

    I’m not sure how other brackets looked, but it kinda seems like all this ‘economy rebalancing’ is great for the top 2% of players while the other 98% are just making up the numbers now..

     

    Would have loved to be in your bracket... Over in Asia, maybe a third to half of 20th to 40th had 1 or 2 S tiers. Everyone else at least ran upgraded As with maxed Bs and Cs. Sounds like I could've easily maintained top 40 in yours. Ugh.
  • aleale Member Posts: 79 ✭✭
    edited July 22
    For this final I used all the C cars left and all the money I still had before the upgrade to open the ceramic packages because I missed the C cars.
    From here on, with the revenue of the game, I think I won't be more competitive for T3 ... I don't know how much I will continue to play if things don't change.
  • mauro07mauro07 Member Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    today is the best day of week... only daily.. so i can relax and not play!! :/
  • Huskic69Huskic69 Member Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are we just gonna accept the loss?
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My pitchforks ready if you wanna start something @Huskic69
  • sinnersinner Member Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Tim are you still analysing the data? 😏
  • OzzmanOzzman Member Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd love to see some stats about the number of cash ceramic packs opened, for players who spend a similar amount of time playing before/after the clubs and economy balancing. Feel free to use me as one of those players. :)
  • MSRZ23MSRZ23 Member Posts: 66 ✭✭✭
    mikes said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    My favourite simple suggestion I've seen on this is to give all wins 3 prize cards. I'm smarfing more than ever, I think that would stop me!


    Yes, this would make everyone very happy, limit smarfing and make events more competitive. I think it's a great idea.
    I Agree. I'm happy just thinking about it. Everyone playing to win.

    But I see an issue in which newer players won't have us smarfers to pick wins off. It might put them off.
    But with lots of players playing and diverse sets, we can reduce this issue as well.

    I really hope they implement this. But with THE GOOD OLD USEFUL PRIZE CARDS.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Member Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am opening 2 or 3 ceramics a week...
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