General Discussion

Slicks & RQ

Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 818 admin
edited August 9 in General Discussion
The general feeling is that the RQ advantage of Slicks is too great.

If you're new to the RQ system, RQ of specialists in Top Drives are lower than generalists of similar performance, because cars are rated by their performance across of challenges on lots of surfaces. It creates an interesting, bumpy distribution with lots of variance in the kind of cars in different RQ and Rarity tiers. However, sometimes cars are so low that they are not particularly strategically interesting. Slick tyre cars, which are only good on dry asphalt, are a big example of underrated cars.

In the next rebalance we could address this - I'd be looking to increase some Slick Tyre cars' RQ by 1 or 2, depending on where the car falls in the rankings (if it is the best car in its RQ band, it'd be more likely to go up 2 RQ than if it was the worst car in its RQ band).
Post edited by Hutch_Robin on
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Comments

  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What if you run the rq test only on asphalt tracks? Should give you a good indication of where slick tire cars should sit.
  • TimButTimBut Member Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Slick tyre cars should go up in RQ
  • MoogMoog Member Posts: 325 ✭✭✭
    There's already precedent for specialists isn't there such as the Honda Beat and El Camino?
    Also, in PL9, a bunch of the offroad cars jumped up RQ, was this due to the natural results of the resolver or were they artificially inflated due to their specialism/tyres?

  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Member Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Whatever you guys do, just don't make the Megane Trophy legendary.
    Not before I can find 15 more ultra rares!
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is the Megane OP only in French events or in general events as well?
  • SluppermadnSluppermadn Member Posts: 43
    The problem is pretty easy.
    We have an event, I got a fairly decent setup, since my fokus for a long time, has been my Porsche garage, so I got 2 maxed legendarys - 29rq GT2RS and 911 R. 917/962 both beats my gt2rs in a drag. I could deal with that, in case they did cost 29rq as my GT2 or 30rq. Then rest of my setup would just have to be better. But due to these slicks being cheaper and still stronger cars, I lose 50 points for the GT2 vs 962 duel, +50 for the other duel in the hand, where the enemy has a car worth 1-2 extra rq than mine.

    A car has to be rated out of It's optimal performance. In situations where the car is decreasing It's performance, It's just the wrong car to use.
    Some will argue that then 962/917 will become useless cars. It sure has less usage, but when they are usable, they're best in class. At the moment, they're just overpowered. When was the last time we saw a high rq limited Porsche event with at least 1 trackset having 5*nok dry tarmac? Never?
    If giving them less use is too much, then just change them from slicks to performance tyres - But fix the damn rq!

  • plain333plain333 Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    The problem is pretty easy.
    We have an event, I got a fairly decent setup, since my fokus for a long time, has been my Porsche garage, so I got 2 maxed legendarys - 29rq GT2RS and 911 R. 917/962 both beats my gt2rs in a drag. I could deal with that, in case they did cost 29rq as my GT2 or 30rq. Then rest of my setup would just have to be better. But due to these slicks being cheaper and still stronger cars, I lose 50 points for the GT2 vs 962 duel, +50 for the other duel in the hand, where the enemy has a car worth 1-2 extra rq than mine.

    A car has to be rated out of It's optimal performance. In situations where the car is decreasing It's performance, It's just the wrong car to use.
    Some will argue that then 962/917 will become useless cars. It sure has less usage, but when they are usable, they're best in class. At the moment, they're just overpowered. When was the last time we saw a high rq limited Porsche event with at least 1 trackset having 5*nok dry tarmac? Never?
    If giving them less use is too much, then just change them from slicks to performance tyres - But fix the damn rq!

    Why don’t you just use a 962/917?
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 818 admin
    edited August 9
    The mid-RQ slick tyre cars are all reasonable. The Golf, XJ-R and Europa Cup all have enough range that they're no more dominant than other cars on different tyres (Escort Rallys, Dezir, Caterhams, Evo IV, Mirai). The Golf and the Europa could be made RQ22/RQ18 without impacting their usefulness much. The XJ-R would suffer more as there aren't any mid or low RQ events these days so super rare cars are just fillers, and low speed specialists generally work much better as fillers than high speed ones.

    RQ is irrelevant for the legendary slick tyre cars. The 917/962C will render other legendary Porsches pointless in any events with dry tracks even if they were RQ30. Ditto the prize cars like the 787B 

    That leaves the Megane Trophy II Racecar, the Porsche RSR and the Twizy F1.

    The twizy F1 could certainly be raised to RQ10 and maybe even RQ11, and the RSR could do with going up to 25-26. I presume for the Megane Trophy you'd be looking at making it as high RQ epic rather than transitioning it to legendary. I could certainly see it as an RQ28-29 epic. 
    I don't think many cars would warrant a rarity transition with my proposed changes. The only ones close to this would be a couple of prize cars that are on the Epic-Legendary border that fortunately haven't yet been awarded yet.

    I think RQ does matter for the Legendary cars, because it can affect the other cars you play in the hand when there's an RQ budget. It's not necessarily about that car's matchups, but how it affects the overall construction of a hand.

    If you feel a lot of these car aren't that dominant, that's a good reason to leave them (good comparisons to the Off Road cars).
    Nemez said:
    You already have a model of evaluation and ranking cars which should apply for ALL cars. 
    Yeah, I have a model which does apply for all cars, but it was calibrated before lots of the super specialist slick tyre cars were introduced. Even without those, there are certain specialist cars since launch that were overlooked by the ranking system. We discussed them and then made some manual adjustments that were for the better.
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 5,157 ✭✭✭✭✭
    plain333 said:
    The problem is pretty easy.
    We have an event, I got a fairly decent setup, since my fokus for a long time, has been my Porsche garage, so I got 2 maxed legendarys - 29rq GT2RS and 911 R. 917/962 both beats my gt2rs in a drag. I could deal with that, in case they did cost 29rq as my GT2 or 30rq. Then rest of my setup would just have to be better. But due to these slicks being cheaper and still stronger cars, I lose 50 points for the GT2 vs 962 duel, +50 for the other duel in the hand, where the enemy has a car worth 1-2 extra rq than mine.

    A car has to be rated out of It's optimal performance. In situations where the car is decreasing It's performance, It's just the wrong car to use.
    Some will argue that then 962/917 will become useless cars. It sure has less usage, but when they are usable, they're best in class. At the moment, they're just overpowered. When was the last time we saw a high rq limited Porsche event with at least 1 trackset having 5*nok dry tarmac? Never?
    If giving them less use is too much, then just change them from slicks to performance tyres - But fix the damn rq!

    Why don’t you just use a 962/917?
    he doesn't have the slicks
  • plain333plain333 Member Posts: 30 ✭✭
    TGPD said:
    plain333 said:
    Why don’t you just use a 962/917?
    he doesn't have the slicks
    And that’s his real problem....
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When maxed legendaries are no match, what is the point.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
    When maxed legendaries are no match, what is the point.
    Playing devil's advocate here, but excluding the slick cars, you can make the same argument for other Legendaries.  I'm not against change, but we should consider all angles.
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As others have said though, we arent excluding the slicks. They win against maxed legends whilst saving RQ, which allows the "weaker" cars to be stronger and also win.
    Maxed legends losing against other max legends dont give that all important RQ bonus as a double whammy.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sorry, but you lost me.  Apologies.
  • TimButTimBut Member Posts: 841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    hung said:
    It's not the problem of slick cars but your track set - you rate your cars with the performance of all tracks, but your track set combination is mainly focus on particular style of tracks. So slick tyres and even off-road tyres ( and actually some drag cars) are dominated - they won't meet the track set that not familiar with!

    I remember the good old days there have events that races from 5 wet to 5 dry, please put more effort to make the event more challenge with strategy - events are very boring now.
    God no. No mixing conditions, it's a total ****. You will be cursed to always play vs best possible ghosts for any condition, while your hand is aimed for only one.

    There are no strategy in game. Just use of your best available cars. Those cars just have to be balanced and have some rotation. 

  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are so many issues that would be a higher priority for me than adjusting rq on slick shod cars, but I also don't imagine it's a high load task. If you're making adjustments like this can you please consider:

    Give the green hellcat an RQ discount to the yellow one.

    Put the furai on slicks (that wet city streets Mazda event still haunts me).

    And can you explain the rq resolver in a bit more detail.  Afaik it's a static manual selection of tracks correct?  Why is it not a weighted average of the actual tracks you've used over the last 3-6 months. Would you be prepared to share the tracks that are used by the resolver?
  • GT47LMGT47LM Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭
    edited August 9
    I have made a post regarding how to solve these issues and that would be by raising the RQ levels. You can find the post here if you would like to read it for yourself and the reasoning behind it if you are looking for a solution that would satisfy the majority of players:
    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/6613/increasing-rq-limit
    Post edited by GT47LM on
  • UltimateUltimate Member Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    plain333 said:
    TGPD said:
    plain333 said:
    Why don’t you just use a 962/917?
    he doesn't have the slicks
    And that’s his real problem....

    Legendary slick tire cars aren’t that easy to come by. Either you’re p2w or very very lucky.

    Fact is no one would ever be forced to use a slick tire car for any event, as vast majority of players have enough cars to cover every other track condition. A super specialist like slick tire cars are just too powerful for its rq on the tracks you would only sensibly use them on.
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GT47LM said:
    I have made a post regarding how to solve these issues and that would be by raising the RQ levels. You can find the post here if you would like to read it for yourself and the reasoning behind it if you are looking for a solution that would satisfy the majority of players:
    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/6613/increasing-rq-limit#latest
    *Citation required
  • GT47LMGT47LM Member Posts: 359 ✭✭✭
    GT47LM said:
    I have made a post regarding how to solve these issues and that would be by raising the RQ levels. You can find the post here if you would like to read it for yourself and the reasoning behind it if you are looking for a solution that would satisfy the majority of players:
    http://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/6613/increasing-rq-limit#latest
    *Citation required
    Whoops, left it on the latest instead lol. Fixed it. Thank you! 
  • SluppermadnSluppermadn Member Posts: 43
    Blue2moro said:
    As others have said though, we arent excluding the slicks. They win against maxed legends whilst saving RQ, which allows the "weaker" cars to be stronger and also win.
    Maxed legends losing against other max legends dont give that all important RQ bonus as a double whammy.
    This might sound stupid, but:
    Thank you for not being blatantly ignorant!
  • StrixStrix Member Posts: 40 ✭✭✭
    Should you also remove the RQ benefit of low cars vs medium/high cars then? Whatever you do, make sure these changes is in spirit with rest of the RQ system, where it's beneficial to use optimal cars on the different tracks. I think it's just fair that slicks has lower RQ than perf tyres, the same way a low car has lower RQ than a medium height, but by how much could obviously be discussed. 
  • RWareRWare Member Posts: 430 ✭✭✭
    edited August 10
    You're talking about Standard City street & Santa Monica versus every other track.

    Against the way slicks are better value RQ on EVERY dry asphalt track. Hardly a comparison.

    That's like saying we should bump up the RQ of Caterhams because theyre slalom specialists.
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Member Posts: 1,449 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
    As others have said though, we arent excluding the slicks. They win against maxed legends whilst saving RQ, which allows the "weaker" cars to be stronger and also win.
    Maxed legends losing against other max legends dont give that all important RQ bonus as a double whammy.
    This might sound stupid, but:
    Thank you for not being blatantly ignorant!
    Maybe I didnt articulate myself well enough, glad someone understood me though. 
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