BMW M8 GTE Finals [EVENT]

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Comments

  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would you need to spend on tickets/services to get those sort of scores above? 6000 gold?  About £50, less than 4 packs. 
    Yes, it is cheaper now to just spam with mediocre hands instead of buying 15x CF. I hope the packsales numbers speak the same language, might be the only reason for Hutch to consider rolling back to the old point system FAST. Current state is a farce.

  • mikesmikes Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here we have two negative scores winning the bracket, could also just be two friends spamming eachother, which is a tactic now valid with the new point system. @Hutch_Robin , @Hutch_Tim i think you should look into this fast and intense. This is breaking your game, i cant imagine any of these players had a fun weekend. The amount of time and money needed to compete got completely out of hand.


    And it goes against the notion and spirit of 'the best hands will always find their way to the top'. Basically, this rewarded whoever could tap on race, skip, race faster.
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Robin, nice move! 
  • bobdylanbobdylan Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To little too soon I'm afraid.... any chance of a refund ? 
  • KrDalleKrDalle Posts: 247 ✭✭✭
    The BMW for all as compensation ^^
  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 162 ✭✭✭
    I realized early I had an easy bracket, as I was expecting to battle for T2 ... ended up finishing 10th! The ticket spam is not the main issue (it is an issue tho), the scoring is the main culprit. Glad to see it will be reverted.

    I bought tickets maybe 4-5 times over the weekend, so nothing major, did buy 1 more under 10mins, but there were about 4 people I could beat their hand in the the top 5-15, depending on the trackset. One finished 6th (he had a strong hand, but I could beat him on one set), another finished 8 and the rest below me. I think they fed heavily on me as well as I finished with a bit more losses than wins. But because I could overall win each trackset if they were around me, we stayed around the top.

    Now I clearly see the play of 2 people doing coop to rise and it explains some hands I saw around.

    My hand was not bad but clearly not T1: Gallardo, Alfa and Porsche Spyder, KTM R, Corvette Grand Sport, all fully upgraded.

    Again, it was at the core an easy bracket - I think the 1st place finished around 1000-1200 points. I finished 700-800-ish. That was pure luck... and the scoring system.

    I should never have been in a position to finish T1, and would not have happened with the previous scoring system.

    Glad to see it back!

  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree. We'll be reverting the scoring to the previous system soon.
    Not for nothing @Hutch_Robin you knew this was a problem weeks ago.  Why not do it then?  Why "soon" when you're just reverting back to a previous system, why not IMMEDIATELY? 

    I presume the people who missed out in brackets like the ones we're seeing will be getting some form of compensation?
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would you need to spend on tickets/services to get those sort of scores above? 6000 gold?  About £50, less than 4 packs. 
    Yes, it is cheaper now to just spam with mediocre hands instead of buying 15x CF. I hope the packsales numbers speak the same language, might be the only reason for Hutch to consider rolling back to the old point system FAST. Current state is a farce.

    I think that might have been the tipping point. As a player, why gamble on pack RNG (for generally thousands of gold) when you can spend a few hundred gold on tickets and servicing to spam your way into tier 1 with an average hand? 

    It’s really a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” situation for Hutch. With this current system, you’ve got average hands pushing good/great hands out of tier 1 with ticket spam: really takes away from the whole “spirit of the game” as you don’t have to have “top drives” anymore to win. But with the old system and all the CFs on offer, the playerbase is unhappy because tier 1 is so contingent on who has the best hand, and the whales can buy all the CFs and buy their way into tier 1. I really feel for Hutch here - there’s not an easy solution to this situation in my opinion.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that the old scoring system will be returning. This ticket spam meta is discouraging and detracts from the strategy of the game. People that put money into this game are doing so to have an advantage, and when that advantage is nullified via ticket spam from lesser hands, I’m sure those people will think twice before buying that next gold pack. 

    Does that mean I’m content with people being able to buy their way into tier 1 via 15 CFs? No, but I’d much rather be beaten by people because their hand is legitimately better, not because they can hit go, skip, and drag cars consistently for the last hour straight.

    There has to be some sort of middle ground. Hutch’s purpose is to make money, but there’s gotta be some way to provide an advantage to players that wish to fork over some coin without seeming blatantly unfair to those that don’t want to or can’t afford to. Personally, I thought the concept of the the 2010 convertible CFs this go-around was a step in the right direction. Not being guaranteed a RWD convertible made it a little harder to buy your way to the top, and as someone that has cut back on spending almost entirely, that made me happy to see that I could be more competitive without having to shell out thousands of gold for CFs. I can see why the P2W players were unhappy with those non-specific event CFs, and even the F2P players who had saved gold and bought CFs only to find they were rewarded with cars they couldn’t use. 

    Again, I believe the non-specific event CFs were a step in the right direction - they still provide a means for paying players to gain an advantage, although the risk is that the advantage is nullified if you’re an unlucky player that didn’t pull any RWD convertibles. But I think that lessening of the advantage given to P2W players made the F2P players a little more hopeful. I wish I had the answer to solve this problem - the solution to provide an advantage for paying players while still keeping the F2P masses in contention. It’s a challenging puzzle, and I think it’s something that Hutch needs to focus on to keep their community happy. 

    I apologize for the novel.

    TL;DR: Ticket spam = bad. CF-buying your way into tier 1 is the lesser of the two evils. Hutch has to work towards finding a solution that provides an advantage for paying players while still giving F2P players a chance to be competitive - non-specific event CFs were a step in the right direction in my opinion.
    I've got an easy solution.  Don't offer 15 packs.

    Alternatively offering packs that are more likely but not guaranteed to give you a valid car is at least interesting.
  • AvengedAvenged Posts: 520 ✭✭✭✭
    KrDalle said:
    Don't forget hutch earns money from ingame ads!
    Losing f2p players is losing clicks is losing money!
    @hutch, you should seriously think of a way to satisfy f2p, because it becomes more and more boring + frustrating.
    I play for over 2 years now and i am far away from being competitive. Since there are no more d, e and f class events the gap becomes even bigger. And i did invest a lot of time, so much that its hard to justify in my family and my wife isn't really amused about this game. If i haven't had quite a bit of luck pulling some nice s cars i wouldn't play this game any more.

    Hutch, create something new to hold your old players, give us a kick we don't have to pay for. Sure p2p people should harvest for their money, but you also should let long term players benefit from their garage. This is a collecting game, where is the clue not using old cars but always just buy new ones?    
    They've had a long time to think and the conclusion is simple - FTP clearly doesn't matter when the PTPs have massive wallets. Otherwise why is the game so PTP-centric?

    Faster you realize that the happier you'll be. Learn to be content with placing 99th instead of 100th. The Top Drives philosophy for the player who refuses to swipe that Citibank.
  • milewski1015milewski1015 Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What would you need to spend on tickets/services to get those sort of scores above? 6000 gold?  About £50, less than 4 packs. 
    Yes, it is cheaper now to just spam with mediocre hands instead of buying 15x CF. I hope the packsales numbers speak the same language, might be the only reason for Hutch to consider rolling back to the old point system FAST. Current state is a farce.

    I think that might have been the tipping point. As a player, why gamble on pack RNG (for generally thousands of gold) when you can spend a few hundred gold on tickets and servicing to spam your way into tier 1 with an average hand? 

    It’s really a “damned if they do, damned if they don’t” situation for Hutch. With this current system, you’ve got average hands pushing good/great hands out of tier 1 with ticket spam: really takes away from the whole “spirit of the game” as you don’t have to have “top drives” anymore to win. But with the old system and all the CFs on offer, the playerbase is unhappy because tier 1 is so contingent on who has the best hand, and the whales can buy all the CFs and buy their way into tier 1. I really feel for Hutch here - there’s not an easy solution to this situation in my opinion.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that the old scoring system will be returning. This ticket spam meta is discouraging and detracts from the strategy of the game. People that put money into this game are doing so to have an advantage, and when that advantage is nullified via ticket spam from lesser hands, I’m sure those people will think twice before buying that next gold pack. 

    Does that mean I’m content with people being able to buy their way into tier 1 via 15 CFs? No, but I’d much rather be beaten by people because their hand is legitimately better, not because they can hit go, skip, and drag cars consistently for the last hour straight.

    There has to be some sort of middle ground. Hutch’s purpose is to make money, but there’s gotta be some way to provide an advantage to players that wish to fork over some coin without seeming blatantly unfair to those that don’t want to or can’t afford to. Personally, I thought the concept of the the 2010 convertible CFs this go-around was a step in the right direction. Not being guaranteed a RWD convertible made it a little harder to buy your way to the top, and as someone that has cut back on spending almost entirely, that made me happy to see that I could be more competitive without having to shell out thousands of gold for CFs. I can see why the P2W players were unhappy with those non-specific event CFs, and even the F2P players who had saved gold and bought CFs only to find they were rewarded with cars they couldn’t use. 

    Again, I believe the non-specific event CFs were a step in the right direction - they still provide a means for paying players to gain an advantage, although the risk is that the advantage is nullified if you’re an unlucky player that didn’t pull any RWD convertibles. But I think that lessening of the advantage given to P2W players made the F2P players a little more hopeful. I wish I had the answer to solve this problem - the solution to provide an advantage for paying players while still keeping the F2P masses in contention. It’s a challenging puzzle, and I think it’s something that Hutch needs to focus on to keep their community happy. 

    I apologize for the novel.

    TL;DR: Ticket spam = bad. CF-buying your way into tier 1 is the lesser of the two evils. Hutch has to work towards finding a solution that provides an advantage for paying players while still giving F2P players a chance to be competitive - non-specific event CFs were a step in the right direction in my opinion.
    I've got an easy solution.  Don't offer 15 packs.

    Alternatively offering packs that are more likely but not guaranteed to give you a valid car is at least interesting.
    I hear you there, I don’t like that 15 CFs are offered either. But you have to look at it from Hutch’s perspective too. Whales spend money because it gives them an advantage - the less drastic that advantage, the less likely they are to spend. I can imagine that without 15 event-specific CFs on offer, the mega mega whales would still have a run at normal CFs to procure a needed car. But I also imagine that a lot of the smaller whales (not to be confused with baby whales with low trophies - I’m more referring to players that spend a bit here and there) would be a lot less likely to shell out $ to try (try being the key word here) to get an advantage. The closer the bait is to the fish, the more chance you have of it biting. That is, the easier it is for players to gain an advantage by spending money, the more likely they are to do it. I’m sure Hutch didn’t see nearly as many CF sales this go-around because the CFs offered were not event-specific and there was a chance you could get a car you couldn’t use. 

    Again, do I agree with it? No. Do I understand that it’s part of their business model to entice players to buy event specific for a chance to get the car they need to secure themselves a prize car? Of course. Do I think there’s an option in the middle ground that still provides P2W players an advantage while keeping F2P players encouraged and competitive? I do, but unfortunately I don’t have that answer, and if I did, I’d be holding it ransom for a lot of CFs :P
  • george42george42 Posts: 3
    I agree. We'll be reverting the scoring to the previous system soon.
    No Robin, this is a step back to justice!
    Think about it! 

    I am not a whale... And I am not a very popular player to have many alliances to help me. 

    I represent the type of most players on The game. 
    The New point system help a lot players like me, Who I was a target many times from alliances and teams! 

    I have proofs that show in Finals like Scuderia or Spyder with a similar amount of win loses I had much fewer points than I have now... Plus I had events that Last minutes become target, and even if made a counter attack with may wins, finally lost T1!!! 😥😥😥😥

    In many other forums like Greek top drives Etc, I see that New point system is much accept able due to feel of justice... 

    In this system you have the opportunity to fight for a better result... In the previous system no opportunity! 


    We cannot make always what big players want! 


  • george42george42 Posts: 3
    mikes said:
    Here we have two negative scores winning the bracket, could also just be two friends spamming eachother, which is a tactic now valid with the new point system. @Hutch_Robin , @Hutch_Tim i think you should look into this fast and intense. This is breaking your game, i cant imagine any of these players had a fun weekend. The amount of time and money needed to compete got completely out of hand.


    And it goes against the notion and spirit of 'the best hands will always find their way to the top'. Basically, this rewarded whoever could tap on race, skip, race faster.
    If I had better had than these guys, I would be above them! For sure! 

    Even if they used 10 tickets on me, I would loose 150 points they get 90 each player so the score would be

    P1:90
    P2:90
    ME:-150

    After I use 10 tickets on P1 for example i would get 200 points, he loose about 150-170 points 

    So New table would be 

    P2:90
    ME:50
    P1: -70 

    So I would target only the P1 to have him down, 

    After some tickets P2 would be far away... So his wins would have so little affect (-10 points or even lower) 

    In the end I would win P1.... I have this opportunity! 

    With previous point system no such an opportunity! 

    I needed 10 times the tickets they need!! 


  • george42george42 Posts: 3
    ppedras said:
    I agree with @milewski1015. The old system was bad but this one is even worse. I know of a group were the top 4 guys, two of them with ZERO losses that had to buy tickets in the last 30 minutes to win the prize car, that’s not fair!

    Another problem is that the last prize cars where won mainly by who had the best luck on those 15 packs. Again I agree with @milewski1015, I know Hutch needs to make money, lots of it to pay the royalties to the brands, having a Porsche or a Lamborghini in the game isn’t cheap, but I don’t think that should be the way. Again some solution in the middle would be interesting.
    I know these players with zero loose (I have met many times) is so chill out in any event knowing that they need only one hour on The weekend to take what ever they want.... And they never loose finally! Think about it!

    I want an opportunity evev me, to know that with some gold and many races I could get something good! 
  • MoogMoog Posts: 423 ✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    I asked them to investigate further, cos the players who came in 8-10th couldn't beat me. My hand had taken only 3 losses in the last 4 hours of the event, and suddenly the bad hands all ganged up on me in the last 3mins.  
    That does sound like you got a tough deal. A while ago I contacted support to help me understand my position in a particular event as I nose dived dozens of places right at the end (wasn't a late joiner, so quite a few races had been played). The support guy was really good and wanted to help, but said that they don't have any granular data, just a summary of the event per player.

    If that's true and all they can see is that you played 80 and lost 3 then I can see why they're saying what they're saying.

    It wouldn't hurt them to give you, a long standing, active member of the community, the benefit of the doubt though.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15
    Moog said:
    RobGripes said:
    I asked them to investigate further, cos the players who came in 8-10th couldn't beat me. My hand had taken only 3 losses in the last 4 hours of the event, and suddenly the bad hands all ganged up on me in the last 3mins.  
    That does sound like you got a tough deal. A while ago I contacted support to help me understand my position in a particular event as I nose dived dozens of places right at the end (wasn't a late joiner, so quite a few races had been played). The support guy was really good and wanted to help, but said that they don't have any granular data, just a summary of the event per player.

    If that's true and all they can see is that you played 80 and lost 3 then I can see why they're saying what they're saying.

    It wouldn't hurt them to give you, a long standing, active member of the community, the benefit of the doubt though.
    Much appreciated. Although I don't expect anything from them, and I usually have very low expectations, I contacted support this time fully believing I had a chance to be rewarded with the prize (first time to ask for such a biggy). I thought they had the data and would see exactly what had happened. 

    Now that I have heard your story I can understand their position also. They don't have access to this crucial data, however they didn't admit it to me during our conversation. I can't help but feel that this is something lacking on their end and I feel robbed because if they did things might've turned out differently. I pumped 45 epics into this final, including extra gold for finishing a fuse, tickets and servicing of course. 45 epics aren't easy to come across. My hand deserved the prize and after joining in day 1 and fighting hard, investing so much... all I got was a token couple hundred gold to help me in the next finals... 

    I can understand why so many players have quit. I can understand why some are so invested and have stopped spending. I can only wish that nobody invests too much, so that Hutch are financially motivated to improve their game's robustness. 

  • O__VERO__VER Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    RobGripes said:
    O__VER said:
    Server errors at the end. Jesus Hutch, can't you get anything right?

    Well, I got a server error less than 5 mins before the end, from a comfortable 6th and not taking losses to suddenly in a dog fight due to the bad ghost. 

    An absolute farce in my opinion.



    A word of warning / advice to you all.

    I came 11th due to a bad ghost. I got a server error 4 minutes from the end (instantaneous, no spinning circle) which of course left a bad ghost. This lead to about 10 losses in the last 3 minutes which dropped me from 6th to 11th.

    Support says there was no server error on their end... it therefore must be on my end. 

    I asked them to investigate further, cos the players who came in 8-10th couldn't beat me. My hand had taken only 3 losses in the last 4 hours of the event, and suddenly the bad hands all ganged up on me in the last 3mins. 

    I didn't hear any more on that, other than they won't award me the car because they didn't see a server error. I guess all of us here who experience server errors when running fiber broadband and 4g on our phones should just go stuff ourselves. I am really quite disgusted. I would suggest to you all, don't spend too much money on this game. It is quite bug-infested and you have absolutely no recourse. 
    That is quite unbelievable Rob, sorry to hear that. Not only were there definite server errors confirmed in this thread by multiple people including myself, but there were reports of overfilling which based on percentages, should mean that the people who came in positions such as 11th or 12th also receive the prize car if this game was in any way fair.

    Perhaps you should draw Hutch's attention to the multiple posts only a page back in this thread talking about server errors?

    I would also love to hear what @Hutch_Robin has to say about this, because it is quite frankly ****.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 15
    @O__VER i am not sure what role Robin has, but somehow I doubt anyone has any power. The shareholders are probably calling the shots. They have found a way to squeeze the game economy further still!  :disappointed:

    I wasn't expecting so much support, i was just providing a word of advice. But I want to say a big thank you to all. I guess some, or more than likely, all of you have been on the wrong end of some server errors or other bugs in the past and so know how it feels.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree. We'll be reverting the scoring to the previous system soon.
    114 in my daily bracket, and 5-0 gets you straight to T2. I really hope you’re working on a new, new scoring system...

  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just a quick idea of the top, putting it out there for discussion to feel out the pros and cons.

    How about scoring reducing as time goes by?

    Join early - can build up scores. 
    Join late - wins worth less.
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