IRGP Pro Circuit - Win the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1!

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Comments

  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you won the chance to get Legendary. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    I'm not sure what to think about the prize continuum between the finals and the contenders event (the one for people who got through to the second round but not the final). 

    Top 25% in the contenders event get Epics, Carbon Fibres, 150/80 gold and 10,000/5,000 credits, While the bottom 40% of players in the Finals get an Ultra Rare, Carbon Fibre, 50 gold and 5,000 credits.

    Sure, the finals players get duplicate rovers and the Superbird, but I'd take an Epic over an Ultra-rare and a Superbird any day. 

    Are you expecting all the people in the top 25% of the contender event to have ended up above the bottom 40% if they could enter the finals despite their generally inferior garage?

    Looks like you're not noticing the bracket size difference, the Contenders is out of 500. So:
    - The runner-up 'Contenders' event awards a CF, epic, 5k cash and 80 gold to the top 25 out of 500, i.e. top 5%
    - The 'Finals' event awards a CF, epic, 7.5k cash and 100 gold to the top 60 out of 100, i.e. top 60%
    Still DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. 25 out of 500 who did NOT get into the final get better prize than 40 out of 100 (so 200 out of 500) that DID make it to the final. Are you insane or just cannot be bothered?

    This needs to be addressed one way or another.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really don't see the issue with that at all. You won the chance at a high end legendary prize car and you are getting a CF + a really good UR just for showing up.
    I have 0 chance to get the legendary or an epic in the final. I would have had a very good chance to get an epic in the runner up series since my garage should be superior in theory to people who could not make it to the final.

    No?
  • ManUtdTobbeManUtdTobbe Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    TD42792 said:
    I really don't see the issue with that at all. You won the chance at a high end legendary prize car and you are getting a CF + a really good UR just for showing up.
    I have 0 chance to get the legendary or an epic in the final. I would have had a very good chance to get an epic in the runner up series since my garage should be superior in theory to people who could not make it to the final.

    No?
    Sure, but i still disagree that the last place in the finals should be guaranteed a better prize then top spot in the backup event. You are GUARANTEED a CF and a high end UR for just showing up instead of fighting for T1 in the other event.

    Edit: If your hand is so weak that you are resigned to getting the last tier in the finals then i doubt it would be strong enough for a guaranteed T1 in the backup event either way.
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Twinkie said:
    TD42792 said:
    I really don't see the issue with that at all. You won the chance at a high end legendary prize car and you are getting a CF + a really good UR just for showing up.
    I have 0 chance to get the legendary or an epic in the final. I would have had a very good chance to get an epic in the runner up series since my garage should be superior in theory to people who could not make it to the final.

    No?
    Sure, but i still disagree that the last place in the finals should be guaranteed a better prize then top spot in the backup event. You are GUARANTEED a CF and a high end UR for just showing up instead of fighting for T1 in the other event.

    Edit: If your hand is so weak that you are resigned to getting the last tier in the finals then i doubt it would be strong enough for a guaranteed T1 in the backup event either way.
    TD42792 said:
    I really don't see the issue with that at all. You won the chance at a high end legendary prize car and you are getting a CF + a really good UR just for showing up.
    I have 0 chance to get the legendary or an epic in the final. I would have had a very good chance to get an epic in the runner up series since my garage should be superior in theory to people who could not make it to the final.

    No?
    Sure, but i still disagree that the last place in the finals should be guaranteed a better prize then top spot in the backup event. You are GUARANTEED a CF and a high end UR for just showing up instead of fighting for T1 in the other event.

    Edit: If your hand is so weak that you are resigned to getting the last tier in the finals then i doubt it would be strong enough for a guaranteed T1 in the backup event either way.
    Yes and he got the plymouth and other good rewards (gold ceramic the rovers)
    But hutch cant give everyone what he wants... this series was the best event thing we ever had (for me personally) but there will always be people who are unlucky somehow and not happy with what they get...
    BUT isnt the runner up series the same tracksets? So I think if u are able to get to place 25/500 in the runner ups you would still be able to get 60/100 in the ginals as its still 45 rq and also some lower garages will have made it as the challanger events where more or less rq limited and doable for newer players....
    So before being mad maybe first compete and after u got ur rewards u can complain
    Happy to give back the useless plymouth and rovers to get the lotus or the merc. Any day.

    So is the idea that some people could not win 2 out of 6 relatively easy rq45 challenger events, but have a better garage with legendary motorsport porsches so should get the chance to win good cars?

    Still dont see the logic.

    And sure, happy to come back and complain once the final is over :)
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    people are talking about "so hard" qualifications.  What was hard exactly?
    they were super easy, much easier than common prelims. 
    Almost zero effort to get in top20. 
    And you were awarded with Superbird. 
    No you are awarded with free carbon and UR car just for entrance. 
    also you had a great farm during last 2 weeks. 

    p. s. I feel sorry for Asian players since their region got screwed and Hutch didn't thought about you.  Maybe VPN can help you? 

    p. p. s super easy for those who are usually in tier1-2.  Hutch did a great move, because I was afraid of playing vs All European whales, Italian ticket spammers, forumers and friends in one bracket.  Now I just need to finish final event as usualy I do without any bloodbath and friendly fire. 

    thx, Hutch, great event. But, next time plz work more on marketing aspects too.  This is a big one event, we needed some information, statistics, some marketing ****, a little bit of event cover would be nice to have.  


  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,720 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    I really don't see the issue with that at all. You won the chance at a high end legendary prize car and you are getting a CF + a really good UR just for showing up.
    I have 0 chance to get the legendary or an epic in the final. I would have had a very good chance to get an epic in the runner up series since my garage should be superior in theory to people who could not make it to the final.

    No?
    Sure, but i still disagree that the last place in the finals should be guaranteed a better prize then top spot in the backup event. You are GUARANTEED a CF and a high end UR for just showing up instead of fighting for T1 in the other event.

    Edit: If your hand is so weak that you are resigned to getting the last tier in the finals then i doubt it would be strong enough for a guaranteed T1 in the backup event either way.
    I guess we have different philosophies on the construct of the event. I believe that a player who made it to the final should get a better prize vs one who did not. If I had known, I actually might have not joined the final, as foregoing the trophy useless superbird for a real chance at the lotus or the merc is a chance I would be willing to take.

    My hand is weak given all the whales (p2w or not). Have been playing long enough that I know I cannot win a prize car in any rq140 event, especially in this final where all the top top best players are so heavily concentrated.

    In a diluted bracket filled with rq45 players my hand is probably quite strong, as I have witnessed in the challenger series. Also dont forget all the really good players are not in the runner up event so it makes it even easier.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TimBut said:
    people are talking about "so hard" qualifications.  What was hard exactly?
    they were super easy, much easier than common prelims. 
    Almost zero effort to get in top20. 
    And you were awarded with Superbird. 
    No you are awarded with free carbon and UR car just for entrance. 
    also you had a great farm during last 2 weeks. 

    p. s. I feel sorry for Asian players since their region got screwed and Hutch didn't thought about you.  Maybe VPN can help you? 

    p. p. s super easy for those who are usually in tier1-2.  Hutch did a great move, because I was afraid of playing vs All European whales, Italian ticket spammers, forumers and friends in one bracket.  Now I just need to finish final event as usualy I do without any bloodbath and friendly fire. 

    thx, Hutch, great event. But, next time plz work more on marketing aspects too.  This is a big one event, we needed some information, statistics, some marketing ****, a little bit of event cover would be nice to have.  


    You can’t in all seriousness say that it was super easy to get into the finals for most players when 50% or whatever of the players that got into the challenger series couldn’t make it through to the final. 
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    will someone really change prize car Superbird to some common epic car? 
  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    Hutch_Tim said:
    I'm not sure what to think about the prize continuum between the finals and the contenders event (the one for people who got through to the second round but not the final). 

    Top 25% in the contenders event get Epics, Carbon Fibres, 150/80 gold and 10,000/5,000 credits, While the bottom 40% of players in the Finals get an Ultra Rare, Carbon Fibre, 50 gold and 5,000 credits.

    Sure, the finals players get duplicate rovers and the Superbird, but I'd take an Epic over an Ultra-rare and a Superbird any day. 

    Are you expecting all the people in the top 25% of the contender event to have ended up above the bottom 40% if they could enter the finals despite their generally inferior garage?

    Looks like you're not noticing the bracket size difference, the Contenders is out of 500. So:
    - The runner-up 'Contenders' event awards a CF, epic, 5k cash and 80 gold to the top 25 out of 500, i.e. top 5%
    - The 'Finals' event awards a CF, epic, 7.5k cash and 100 gold to the top 60 out of 100, i.e. top 60%
    Fair enough. Having qualified for the finals I could only go on screenshots and the one I saw of the contenders event showed three prize tiers, which ended at 100, so I assumed it was the same size as the finals event. 

    The smaller numbers does make it much more likely that normal garage variation means there'll be strong hands taking the epics in the contenders despite their failure to qualify for the finals. 

    ManUtdTobbe said:
    Edit: If your hand is so weak that you are resigned to getting the last tier in the finals then i doubt it would be strong enough for a guaranteed T1 in the backup event either way.
    Except these are top drive tiers, so it's not just last place, 80% of finals players are getting a worse prize than T1 in the contenders event. 

    I suspect the people most likely to be worst off here will be those ending at the top of tier 4. If you get 21st to 25th in a final like this you've got a very strong hand, potentially strong enough to get top 5 in the contenders event.

    Looking at some of the hands being posted in the contenders thread on the IGF those of us at 50th and below probably wouldn't stand a chance getting into the top 5% of the contenders event. There are plenty of legendaries around. With it being 5% not 25% as I originally thought I don't think it's a big deal for most people who qualified for the finals.


    Post edited by EndlessWaves on
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sorry Tim, you talk about number and %... but in the last final event how many brackets are opened for region? and today final how many brackets are open? you know that in this final only few player are in because a lot of players win more than 3 smart and more than 3 rover... so, i wait some number that you have... you talk about 8/100 players in every bracket win this prize car... but if we are only 1000 player, we can presume there will be only 10 brackets and only 80 players win this car; in regular finals we have brackets for 500 players but how many brackets? if you say that more peolpe will win this ZR1, i may assume there are few player that play the game...
    i think there are more 5000 player in the game, so we have the same 10 brackets, with the same 80 winners....
    Asian server have problems because there are few players than EU or US.... and i think to there are more of 5000 players in the game (range 45rq-150rq), so  i don't understand your calculations...
    PS: it would be interesting to know how many players with a lower rq of 150 are in this finals (maybe the % is good enough)
    PPS: i think in this final we have the best garages, because the pre and semi are challenging enough to esclude only few big garages but the majority of little garages!!! 
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was pretty upset when I saw that top prize in the runner up event is better than 80% of the awarded prizes in the finals, and not having a 2-11 myself really rubs salt in the wound.

    But, for the health of the game overall, we need some newer players to get a lucky break and win a high end car to keep them playing. Otherwise the player pool will get smaller & more concentrated until it’s just Eric Shih & Holoman left. 

    Really glad I’m not on the AS server btw. VPN? 
  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure we can VPN. How does the US and EU feel about us taking their prize cars...? 
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    I think there was already an answer for that. 
     Tim said that they haven't thought about Asia. 
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TimBut said:
    I think there was already an answer for that. 
     Tim said that they haven't thought about Asia. 

    I reckon global # of prizes cars will be lower, not only in Asia
  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    @Hutch_Tim why did Hutch believe that this prize car should be awarded less than others generally?

    At the end of this series I estimate there will be fewer than half of the ZR1 going around than say, the Dodge Demon. 

    I say this, because we have already filtered out the majority of the players enroute to the final. Of the final (in Asia less than 10% seems to have made it through), only 8% will get the car. 

    In comparison to a usual final that is about 1% vs 2.5-3% average (because finals usually open between 4 and 6 brackets in Asia) 
    So Asia should continue to have easy brackets because it's had them in the past?

    In Europe a normal final can be assumed to be close to the 8 in 500 (1.6%) multiplied by whatever percentage of players can enter.

    So for a fairly tricky to enter final like the Demon one that required AD x5, Chevrolet x4 there might be 30-70% of the player base entering.  Let's say 50%. So the dodge demon final gave out the prize car to around 0.8% of total players, compared to your figure of 1% of total players for the ZR1.


  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    @Hutch_Tim why did Hutch believe that this prize car should be awarded less than others generally?

    At the end of this series I estimate there will be fewer than half of the ZR1 going around than say, the Dodge Demon. 

    I say this, because we have already filtered out the majority of the players enroute to the final. Of the final (in Asia less than 10% seems to have made it through), only 8% will get the car. 

    In comparison to a usual final that is about 1% vs 2.5-3% average (because finals usually open between 4 and 6 brackets in Asia) 
    So Asia should continue to have easy brackets because it's had them in the past?

    In Europe a normal final can be assumed to be close to the 8 in 500 (1.6%) multiplied by whatever percentage of players can enter.

    So for a fairly tricky to enter final like the Demon one that required AD x5, Chevrolet x4 there might be 30-70% of the player base entering.  Let's say 50%. So the dodge demon final gave out the prize car to around 0.8% of total players, compared to your figure of 1% of total players for the ZR1.


    The thing is that 1% of our total players are the same 1% for every single event. So after every event for the lack of a better word, the “whales”  on our server become stronger and thus widening the gap between the haves and have nots. We don’t call our server, the “Server of death” for nothing. It is very much dominated by the same small group of individuals for every event and due to the very reason that you mention, our small player base, we can’t avoid them. We spend half our potential playing time trying to wait for brackets to close so we can get a shot at T1 or T2 and even then we have the usual late join whales that take the prizes, thats not particularly healthy for the game or for any new rq150s who don’t know what they’re walking into. At least in the US or EU, with a larger spread of players you got a hope of making your 0.8% for any particular event. And if your hand is complete toilet you get the chance of late joining and very likely hitting a new bracket, our brackets don’t even close. Think about that? We can’t even scab a prize car with a crappy hand even if our life depended it on in. So then how does that make our AS brackets easier? You debate numbers and statistics and think we got it good, but you don’t understand what actually happens in our brackets that make us so frustrated every event. Come play with us for a month and see for yourself.
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    do I need to VPN just before enter event? or I should. play all the time with VPN on 
  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 586 ✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    The thing is that 1% of our total players are the same 1% for every single event. So after every event for the lack of a better word, the “whales”  on our server become stronger and thus widening the gap between the haves and have nots. We don’t call our server, the “Server of death” for nothing. It is very much dominated by the same small group of individuals for every event and due to the very reason that you mention, our small player base, we can’t avoid them. We spend half our potential playing time trying to wait for brackets to close so we can get a shot at T1 or T2 and even then we have the usual late join whales that take the prizes, thats not particularly healthy for the game or for any new rq150s who don’t know what they’re walking into. At least in the US or EU, with a larger spread of players you got a hope of making your 0.8% for any particular event. And if your hand is complete toilet you get the chance of late joining and very likely hitting a new bracket, our brackets don’t even close. Think about that? We can’t even scab a prize car with a crappy hand even if our life depended it on in. So then how does that make our AS brackets easier? You debate numbers and statistics and think we got it good, but you don’t understand what actually happens in our brackets that make us so frustrated every event. Come play with us for a month and see for yourself.
    As someone who has played for over a year on Europe, qualified for this finals with an extra rover to spare, has well over 500 cars, 15k+ trophies and yet has never even come close to a prize car I'm in exactly the same situation you are.

    The elite group in Europe may be big enough that they don't all recognise each other, and maybe slightly vague around the edges from sheer size but how many posts do you see about people legitimately winning their first prize car on any server? Very, very few. 
  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    The thing is that 1% of our total players are the same 1% for every single event. So after every event for the lack of a better word, the “whales”  on our server become stronger and thus widening the gap between the haves and have nots. We don’t call our server, the “Server of death” for nothing. It is very much dominated by the same small group of individuals for every event and due to the very reason that you mention, our small player base, we can’t avoid them. We spend half our potential playing time trying to wait for brackets to close so we can get a shot at T1 or T2 and even then we have the usual late join whales that take the prizes, thats not particularly healthy for the game or for any new rq150s who don’t know what they’re walking into. At least in the US or EU, with a larger spread of players you got a hope of making your 0.8% for any particular event. And if your hand is complete toilet you get the chance of late joining and very likely hitting a new bracket, our brackets don’t even close. Think about that? We can’t even scab a prize car with a crappy hand even if our life depended it on in. So then how does that make our AS brackets easier? You debate numbers and statistics and think we got it good, but you don’t understand what actually happens in our brackets that make us so frustrated every event. Come play with us for a month and see for yourself.
    As someone who has played for over a year on Europe, qualified for this finals with an extra rover to spare, has well over 500 cars, 15k+ trophies and yet has never even come close to a prize car I'm in exactly the same situation you are.

    The elite group in Europe may be big enough that they don't all recognise each other, and maybe slightly vague around the edges from sheer size but how many posts do you see about people legitimately winning their first prize car on any server? Very, very few. 
    Fair point, they are very hard to get, and that adds to the prestige of winning one. I do feel for those that play on EU as I’ve tried it a couple times and it is brutally competitive. Please don’t misconstrue my point that we want it easy, we just want to be treated equally with our EU and US counterparts and not be the after thought that we always are. If Hutch’s logic worked out that EU and US get double prize cars then the same logic should have applied to AS as well. Not that I think that would be particularly fair for the EU or US. As it is we don’t get equal, we get the opposite.
  • jigajiga Posts: 402 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16
    Hutch_Tim said:

           ...when we saw how brutal the qualifying process proved, it really left us with two choices:
    1) Leave T1 as 20 out of 500
    2) Reduce bracket size and increase % getting T1

    We saw the implications of each choice as follows:

    1) Leave T1 as 20 out of 500
    - It's the most brutal Final ever; someone strong enough to make T1 in a regular final could have struggled to make T3
    - Brackets would fill extremely unevenly. E.g. 600 people in one region might fill 1 bracket and then leave only 100 in the next. (I hadn't actually thought about Asia when we were debating this, but the same thing applies)
    - The result of these two factors together meant that your chance of making T1 would have been far more down to when you entered and which server you entered than how good your Motorsport hand is. I guess VPN'ing would have increased.
    + ... but we would have kept to our word

    2) Reduce bracket size and increase % getting T1
    + Brackets are (on average) more equally filled, so it's fairer
    + It's still probably the most brutal Final ever in terms of competition for the prize car, but less so than option (1)
    + The total number of ZR1s given out is higher, closer to our original intent
    - People who don't understand percentages, or who assumed the final would have brackets of 100, would feel disappointed
    - ... and we would have done something different to what we said we would, which we like to avoid doing.

    We knew we would get complaints either way, but given the situation, we felt overall that option (2) was fairer, truer to the intent of the event, and would overall be more popular.
    @Hutch_Tim ; Apart from the bit about it being a particularly brutal qualifying process I struggle to see how any of these points apply to the Asian server at all.   

    hadn't actually thought about Asia when we were debating this, but the same thing applies
    Simply untrue.  Brackets of 100 will likely no more fill than ones of 500 unless a whole lot of players vpn in under foolish misapprehension that AS brackets might be easier.  In fact many top players regularly vpn out of AS for finals to give themselves a chance.  And if two brackets of 100 do fill the 2nd gen brackets will have so few in them and the ZR1 awarded to late joiners with weak hands that it just makes a mockery of the whole game.

    Total number of ZR1 given out in this region will (most likely) be less and so not closer to your claimed original intent.  And that is the case even with 2nd gen brackets in which scenario you award a further 16 ZR1 to the weakest qualifiers who saw their only hope in a late opening bracket.

    It really does feel like you are not paying any regard at all to players in this part of the world.  I am feeling somewhat discouraged and it appears I am not the only one.
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