Club Events Season 2 Balance Update

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Comments

  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Are you in legacy @TimBut?
  • bobdylanbobdylan Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well..... iv ran out of money 
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bobdylan said:
    Well..... iv ran out of money 
    Me too. Broke. I might even have to play the club events 🙄
  • krystiankrystian Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    bobdylan said:
    Well..... iv ran out of money 
    Me too. Broke. I might even have to play the club events 🙄
    No prize cars for sale?
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭
    krystian said:
    BoxtaS said: 
    Me too. Broke. I might even have to play the club events 🙄
    No prize cars for sale?
    Lol, don’t tempt me.

    911 GT3 RS 4.0 for nearly 100 plastics is quite a deal...
  • OliverMattOliverMatt Posts: 2

    Overall Changes

    • To reduce volatility, we are increasing the length of Club events and the thresholds needed to win by 100%

    • To maintain the current level of Club Event rewards, the rewards awarded at the end of each event will all increase by 100%, too

    • We are also increasing rewards by 30% at the top end. This will mainly help higher RQ players.

    • Despite events being 100% longer, the Participation thresholds will only increase by 50%, making higher rewards easier to obtain

    • Max size of events has been reduced 150 to 75 players per side to encourage better distribution of players

    • New, more open criteria have been added to the pool of criteria that events are seeded from

    • When a Club is dominating, the opposing Club’s score reduces at 3x speed. We are reducing this to 2.5x speed.

    • These changes will take place in Season 2. It may take some time for these changes to roll out across all Club Events. We will aim to make to make this changes Wednesday morning UK time.

    End of Event Rewards

    We’ve heard your feedback for greater rewards. As this is an ‘unlimited’ play mode, rewards are intended to be smaller on a per race basis than other modes. We are actively monitoring how much cash users earn from Club Events and will use this to inform any balance decisions.

    We are making three changes for now:

    • Redistributing rewards. We want players to contribute to their Club’s efforts, not snipe events in their final minutes, so more emphasis has been put on racing more and maintaining a strong leaderboard position. This also implicitly means larger rewards for higher RQ players, so over time levelling up will increase your rewards.

    • As a result of the redistribution of rewards, there is a moderate increase in rewards of around 30%, that will mainly benefit late game players.

    • On top of that, we are also doubling rewards in line with event length to keep that ratio the same

    The aim is for Club Events to provide a similar distribution of rewards to Daily Events (once end of season rewards are taken into account), but based around actively participating and winning races.

    Reward Redistribution

    • Slightly increasing rewards from Number of Races

    • Decreasing rewards from Club Victory relative to other categories to reduce the benefit of joining events in the final minutes

    • Although event length is doubling, the required races is only increasing by 50%, so it is easier to earn the higher Participation rewards

    • Greatly increasing rewards from leaderboard position

    For transparency here are the requirements, and previous and new rewards:

    End of Season rewards

    For transparency here are the criteria, and current rewards:

    Daily Events

    As previously stated, Club Events are the new iteration of Daily Events, which have become stagnant and had few incentives for playing legitimately. Daily Events will end as Season 2 begins.


    Eight Events a Week

    We have been trialing an eighth standard event in the week that starts on Thursdays and ends on Saturdays. If you’re of the position that you prefer normal events, know that we have added a new designed event to the weekly schedule.

    Known issues

    • Players are matching against bots rather than opposing players too frequently. This is unintended. We will investigate and make a fix. Server engineers are currently focused on reducing overall server errors in the game as a priority.

    FAQ

    Why can’t I join a particular area that has an event in?

    You can only target areas that haven’t been cut-off. You can enter events only if you can travel from your HQ to the event, without travelling through a rival Club's sector or a sector with an active event in it.

    A full FAQ can be found here: https://hutch.helpshift.com/a/top-drives-new/?s=general-game-info&f=what-are-club-events&l=en

    Hutch, please, first of all, solve the problem of emulators with club events!!
    I sent you an email and you didn't even give me a reply.


  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think they officially do not support emulators. 


  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Legacy is caged in because the events are too long and the opposition attacks our sector (which we just won) before we can advance, cutting off sectors we need to defend. I wonder if this is intended to be in the “spirit of the game”.

    Btw I just played 1 1/2 hours straight, battled in 3 sectors for less then 10k cash and raced 40+ times. I’ve not helped my club in any way because we’re stuck in the mire of Hutch incompetence. Oh sorry that was a bit rude. Fix your freaking game Hutch 😡
  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AND BRING BACK DAILIES!


    NOW!!!
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 1,864 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 30
     @Hutch_Robin A big issue here for me is that you earn less per race/minute the more you do. I've run 3 clubs races at varying participation. These were all bot hands so quickly spammable. The reward per minute play obviously would reduce drastically against real players where you have to consider placement...but at least it might be interesting.

    Win, Platinum participation, MVP performance, Rookie rank
    50 races in 25 minutes with 5800 reward or 232 per minute

    Win, Gold participation, Gold performance, Rookie rank
    15 races in 7.5 minutes with 3800 reward or 507 per minute

    Win, Silver participation, Silver performance, Rookie rank
    5 races in 2.5 minutes with 1800 reward or 720 per minute

    It should be more rewarding for putting in the extra effort. I have no incentive to put in an MVP performance if I'm earning 1/3rd cash income (for time spent playing) of just putting in 5 races and getting on with my day.


  • Sherby90Sherby90 Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    I'm sorry to continue with the negativity, but our wishes for fixing go to a man who said that a leaderboard does not need to be real-time... That explains a lot to me.
  • jczerojczero Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    Legacy is caged in because the events are too long and the opposition attacks our sector (which we just won) before we can advance, cutting off sectors we need to defend. I wonder if this is intended to be in the “spirit of the game”.

    Btw I just played 1 1/2 hours straight, battled in 3 sectors for less then 10k cash and raced 40+ times. I’ve not helped my club in any way because we’re stuck in the mire of Hutch incompetence. Oh sorry that was a bit rude. Fix your freaking game Hutch 😡
    Why do you even play mate? Let it run it's own course and you'll see that we are going to win season 2 as well, it's all part of the program
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You wont return dailies, I get it, but REDUCE THE GODDAMN EVENTS TIME. 


  • jczerojczero Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭
    TimBut said:
    You wont return dailies, I get it, but REDUCE THE GODDAMN EVENTS TIME. 


    For what? the point is that you increase your play time, so the mining machines can keep on running, wait...
  • tichoblintichoblin Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As part of the overall objection to smurfing, part of the question is how much value should you get for quite a low effort strategy that involves playing in a way that wasn't intended. What should determine the cash players earn each week in these lower stakes events?
     
    Just a quick look at Blue2moro's numbers. I'll propose a few corrections, perhaps there are more.

    - 224k a week is assuming 7 fewer events, but there are only 6 fewer events due to an additional Thursday event, so that's 192k difference. Tier 4 of a 48h event rewards 2.5k extra cash more than Tier 4 of a 24h event, so lets say 189.5k cash.
    - If you assume at least Rookie rank, as it takes just two days to get to, that adds $1.5k (1k event, 0.5k season)
    - Spend 499 gold on the doubler, and you're at -59 gold, but up 129.5k.

    There may be more maths we can do, and we'll keep an eye on the actual earnings, but then we're talking about 259k a week. That's +35k and -59 gold. Much closer than it sounded with the example you gave.
    TimBut said:
    Same events whole day - Waaaay more boring than dailies. 
    I understand a lot of your objections, but come on. There is more variety in Club Events than Dailies.
    The problem is not in total income only. It is also in time spent/ income ratio. Which is way lower for smurfing.
    Variety? What kind of variety are you talking? Have you guys played yourselves clubs before releasing them? Or you really find permanent beating bots and being unable to join events is a variety?
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    x5 ultra rare 98 RQ bring your Variety in 19Rq cars in your garage.  Oh you dont have much? PAY FOR SERVICE. 
    x5 FWD
    X5 USA x3 Dodge
    X5 Italian
    X5 FR
    X5 USA
    X5 ultra rare x3 German
    etc.
    all Drags / Rain / Offroad

    Variety? - I assume yes.
    Fun? - HELL NO. 
  • DannyDanny Posts: 605 ✭✭✭✭
    At what point can hutch keep ignoring the whole base of players playing this game? It’s clear at least 95% of people want daily’s back. What issues do you have with bringing it back? @Hutch_Robin @Hutch_Robin
  • TopDivesTopDives Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    Ultimate said:
    Yeah I’m done playing clubs. It feels more like a job than a game
    I just can't do it! I tried, i played a few events, but you are right. It feels like a second job.
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There is no excitment in this events... I enter only events that we are gonna win to get few Club xp, and as soon as i hit 50xp i am done till next day. 
  • tichoblintichoblin Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    greddy said:
    There is no excitment in this events... I enter only events that we are gonna win to get few Club xp, and as soon as i hit 50xp i am done till next day. 
    Last minute join again:)))
  • KarhgathKarhgath Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Blue2moro said:
     @Hutch_Robin A big issue here for me is that you earn less per race/minute the more you do. I've run 3 clubs races at varying participation. These were all bot hands so quickly spammable. The reward per minute play obviously would reduce drastically against real players where you have to consider placement...but at least it might be interesting.

    Win, Platinum participation, MVP performance, Rookie rank
    50 races in 25 minutes with 5800 reward or 232 per minute

    Win, Gold participation, Gold performance, Rookie rank
    15 races in 7.5 minutes with 3800 reward or 507 per minute

    Win, Silver participation, Silver performance, Rookie rank
    5 races in 2.5 minutes with 1800 reward or 720 per minute

    It should be more rewarding for putting in the extra effort. I have no incentive to put in an MVP performance if I'm earning 1/3rd cash income (for time spent playing) of just putting in 5 races and getting on with my day.


    Depends, they probably see it as income per hour or such. Right now, with the super long club events, if you do have 25 minutes to lose, it's much better to spam hutch bots for 25 minutes and try to get MVP. What suck is when you invest those 25-30 minutes and do not get MVP - you get about 1000 less cash, which is worse. And we're talking about competition against your own team.

    So yeah, in terms purely of income, it's "ok" I guess if you have an algorithm calculating income per hour median and such (which seems to be what Hutch is doing) - since you can't play more than 1 event, if you have more time, you better spam it to get more cash per hour.

    For us tho, not very fun - I'd rather not gamble on getting MVP, just get 5 races and log back later. I am surely not the only one, and that defeats the "limited ticket sucks" argument from Hutch - this is pretty much the equivalent of the daily, minus the challenge and with delayed rewards at the end of week.

    I understand what they are trying to do (standardize mean income for everyone and not have smurfers get much higher income than everyone) but they've missed so many side effect and impacts and completely lost the player's perspective.

    Look, I am ok with curbing smurfing - it's ok, it's not intended behavior, a loophole, but they've mixed up the need for some new gameplay with this and tickets limits and stale dailies and ended up with something that did not address any of those issues specifically and made everything worse.


  • gonongonon Posts: 14
    Ozzman said:
    Many things have been said here in this thread, including most of my thoughts as well. I'm not sure if anyone (who has the power to change things) is listening, but I'll still try to share my point of view.
    • First of all, the problem is not with the clubs feature by itself. It is a new feature, and we desperately needed something, but right now it's a half-baked beta version of something that can be good fun, but right now is just bugged and boring. It has potential, but needs time, probably months, to make it what is should have been from the start. But hey, we're used that. That's always how things were in TopDrives.
    • The problem is that Hutch thought that it is ready to replace something that has been for more than a year a not so interesting but very-very important part of the TopDrives ecosystem.
    • I know that here on the forum we're all assuming that everyone is a good smurfer, and was capable of making 30-40k cash by smurfing the dear departed daily events. That's probably not true. But those who were, Hutch, are the most devoted fans of Top Drives. Those are the players who are now disappointed, and this could hurt the game in the long run. Yes there are players who thought the dailies are pointless, because no matter how hard they tried, couldn't get higher than tier 4. They are probably happy with clubs replacing the daily events. But are these really the players you want to satisfy? They won't be around for long.
    • If I had not found this forum and learned about smufring, and thus become able to open many Ceramics, I would have quit the game by now for sure. Progress is painfully slow even with 3-4 Ceramics per day, but it kept many of us going regardless. Any less than that would prbably kill all the fun in the game. You had a good balance. A balance that kept the F2P going, but gave something to the P2W for their money, and guaranteed that everyone can enjoy this game for years. Don't ruin this please.
    • I know that pleasing everyone is impossible, but this is just as bad for new players as for us veterans. I can't imagine how hard it would be now to start a garage from scratch. Acquiring and updgrading all those super useful C/D/E/F cars. To get to the level where I am right now would probably take years. Most new players will just quit after finishing the campaign, once they realize how hard it is to progress.
    • I'm not saying the dailies should stay forever, but getting rid of them without a replacement that can provide just as much resources (cash, gold AND cars) for the same effort, will slow the progress beyond bearable. It was already tiptoeing on the edge before clubs. Please re-think this.
    I completely agree with Ozzman

    Hey Hutch, talk to me.

    I do not understand why remove options within the game. Forcing players to do only one thing is very bad. Let more variety of things to do, will please more players.
    In DAILIES, it's the best option for players, especially the new ones (who just finished the campaign) to get resources to evolve their cars and the game mode that most motivates us to play. In the Clubs, they are forcing us to play more to get less rewards and some people are not willing to play that much time and whoever wants to play more has an option.
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The only way I see clubs working - divide players like in current events.  Only 90 players on one map for example and only 20k trophies for example.  Then same for 15k, 10k, etc. 
    If we get rid of bots - it might become an interesting mode to play, but. It still seems to be a hard stupid time-eating job to get some dollars.  
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