PL9.0 - German Renaissance Discussion Thread

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  • BasilBasil Posts: 273 ✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    Basil said:

    I think you forget some things. Assuming you play the way Hutch want you to play, and assuming you win every time with 1 star => You would end up in T1 (as you win every race). So, in this case,... you forget about the gold you are winning (or does this not count?).

    When you stick up for average farmers (good of you to think of them :-)) They will not win every race or maybe even 20% of the races. But also there, previously they would not win all the smurfing races you did, don't you think?

    It's impressive to see the maths you do (and I'm glas that some of you guys try to make this game better for all of us instead of just moaning about the money and don't come up with real proposals) but I'm afraid the days of smurfing and be able to end up in T1-T2 are over. I see that you have a lot of Posts so I assume that you are around here from the beginning and that your garage is an average garage. You might be able to pull of some T2's or even sometimes a T1 but for beginning players I'm afraid that this is an illusion (or they have to play for 10 years).

    I'm a p2w player as I don't have 10 hours a day to play TD . I can say that I spend around 500 Euro a moth on this game during the 1 year I play now and it is VERY difficult to end up in T1 (I play around 50-60 races per event). Do the maths on my spending , buying CF, winning Ceramics with it and sometimes CF and you will see that 'getting by' with smurfing (especially when you start) is nowadays not possible.

    Instead of focussing on earning more money with farming I think that Hutch has to mast one / week) where beginners and farmers have a real go to top prizes and imo this is only possible with low RQ events.

    I see a lot of moaning around here for loss of money but then I think : How many of you are just complaining to complain that smurfing isn't possible anymore but in the end of the day they just do late joining have a go for T1-T2. Where is the smurfing there ????

    Still, you do a great job by working together with Hutch to make this game better for everyone,.. I just reply I see around here about making money.


    I think most of us don't have 10 hours a day to play TD. We have about 30 minutes. That's why the hand saving feature bug is so annoying. That's also why the daily is crucial. We can smurf it so easily, winning 3 stars easily alongside our smarfing colleagues. 

    There is no reason why we can't have a variety of events each and every week. Some with unlimited RQ, some limited. Some missing piece, some formula fun, some others yet to be created. The more the merrier. 

    The issue at hand is, without an income stream that allows us to make progress in the game, we leave. Whether we are old, young, male female, enthusiast, calm, angry whatever we be as a player. If we can't progress then we find it pointless to play. 

    The removal of the daily and therefore forced play of Clubs lead to a revolt. This time people aren't as angry but I think the sentiment is one of major disappointment. Hutch recognised our anger and posted that they would make adjustments to appease. Those adjustments haven't met our expectations. We're not asking for the world here, but our income is down. If anything, it should go up. At the very least we expect it to stay at the same level.

    Tim came into the forum and says we got 18 full days of 100% income from Clubs, dailies etc. Totally forgot about the fact that we had many days without the daily altogether.  @HeissRod do your records happen to know how many days we had no dailies for?

    Hutch's behaviour doesn't show good faith, where they make up for their mistake. It shows they are constantly thinking about how to not give us more - to the point where they in fact end up giving us less. 



    Hi Rob,

    When Hutch would bring more events where beginners (or players who smurfed till now) get more potential of becomming T1-T2, and the prices would be better (like Hutch promises now) would that not do the trick. I don't mean the daily's where with a RQ of 150 the bigspenders can show of with their Bugatti's but real challenging (even for whales) with RQ max 80 or something. Let's call it a 'smurfing event'.  The idea of this game was to race each other and be awarded in the end with the result in the event. Smurfing is a clever way players found to collect money to upgrade cars  (or sometimes be able to buy Ceramic) without spending real money but I'm convinced that when it comes down to gameplay every smurfer prefers real racing instead of smurfing.

  • DrizztSalvatoreDrizztSalvatore Posts: 277 ✭✭✭
    unfortunately if you are free to play even low RQ events of 60-125 you struggle to get tier 1 as the Whales and moderate spenders have a garage that is 2-3 times larger and they have most of their SR and UR fully upgraded.... the only way to try and compete was by getting cash/cars from prize boards smurfing..... I have at least 40 UR cars that are 0-0-0 as getting 2-3 ceramics a day takes almost a week to just upgrade 1 ultra rare.......
  • sinnersinner Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Couldn't agree more @AndreasSimmer 
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:
    HeissRod said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Regarding prize board rebalancing, in terms of the transition, the Daily only just has the new end-of-event prizes now
    Let's put some math to this, then.

    With the old setup (and my less than stellar farming practice), I would quit out with all of my tickets for the first 3 hands of tickets, start to play with my 4th round, then go to sleep.  I then wake up the next morning and start clearing boards.  Assuming I cleared 3 stars every time I played correctly until the end of the event, I could play 20-25 tickets and clear 4-5 prize boards.  This allowed me to sell everything and reap $33,000-41,250 in cash just from the daily event.  At the end, I may have made it back up to T4, which would have added another meager prize on top.  No big deal if I didn't, especially because T2 only awarded an Aluminum.  I have never ranked T1 in a daily.

    With the new setup (and Hutch's desire for me to play all out with all of my tickets), I'll be farming mostly 1 star wins from every opponent for all 35-40 of those tickets I previously mentioned.  This means I am able to clear right around 3 prize boards, assuming I win every ticket played, which we know would not be the case for the majority of players.  With the new reduced cash total from the prize boards, I am now pulling in $15,375 from the event and those boards, making use of the occasional 2 star win to do so.  Assuming a middle of the road player makes T2-3, I can now add 6000-8000 cash to that, netting me a grand total of $23,375 from the daily event.  This is an average reduction of $13,750 from the previous setup.  Apply this across the 3-4 events running at a time each day and I see a total reduction in daily income of $41,250-55,000.  

    Now, I know you are going to say that club income in not being included, so lets work on that.  A typical finish in a club event returns around $3,000 for me, as a player with an above average garage and the Challenger rank.  Assuming I can play club events 15 times a day and each of those is a win, that brings in another $45,000.  Unfortunately, because of needing to jump in and play tickets only when I have time, and the fact that you can't win them all, that 15 usually turns into around 6.  For me, that's only another $18,000 on a good day.  I'm still seeing a $23,250-37,000 reduction in daily income compared to my average smurfing skills.  Players who smurfed better than me are seeing a much larger reduction in their income.

    Lets then not forget the common joe players who knew nothing about smurfing and just played their hands everyday in the manner than Hutch intended.  These players would consistently place in T3/4 because of the players smurfing below them, who left them alone.  Those inexperienced players will now finish T4 and 5, with 2000-4000 in winnings as a result.  That prize isn't even enough to pay back upgrading a common past 333, so how are these players expected to progress in the game?


    I think you forget some things. Assuming you play the way Hutch want you to play, and assuming you win every time with 1 star => You would end up in T1 (as you win every race). So, in this case,... you forget about the gold you are winning (or does this not count?).

    I think you missed this part

    HeissRod said:
    This means I am able to clear right around 3 prize boards, assuming I win every ticket played, which we know would not be the case for the majority of players.

  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 5,455 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    Basil said:

    I think you forget some things. Assuming you play the way Hutch want you to play, and assuming you win every time with 1 star => You would end up in T1 (as you win every race). So, in this case,... you forget about the gold you are winning (or does this not count?).

    When you stick up for average farmers (good of you to think of them :-)) They will not win every race or maybe even 20% of the races. But also there, previously they would not win all the smurfing races you did, don't you think?

    It's impressive to see the maths you do (and I'm glas that some of you guys try to make this game better for all of us instead of just moaning about the money and don't come up with real proposals) but I'm afraid the days of smurfing and be able to end up in T1-T2 are over. I see that you have a lot of Posts so I assume that you are around here from the beginning and that your garage is an average garage. You might be able to pull of some T2's or even sometimes a T1 but for beginning players I'm afraid that this is an illusion (or they have to play for 10 years).

    I'm a p2w player as I don't have 10 hours a day to play TD . I can say that I spend around 500 Euro a moth on this game during the 1 year I play now and it is VERY difficult to end up in T1 (I play around 50-60 races per event). Do the maths on my spending , buying CF, winning Ceramics with it and sometimes CF and you will see that 'getting by' with smurfing (especially when you start) is nowadays not possible.

    Instead of focussing on earning more money with farming I think that Hutch has to mast one / week) where beginners and farmers have a real go to top prizes and imo this is only possible with low RQ events.

    I see a lot of moaning around here for loss of money but then I think : How many of you are just complaining to complain that smurfing isn't possible anymore but in the end of the day they just do late joining have a go for T1-T2. Where is the smurfing there ????

    Still, you do a great job by working together with Hutch to make this game better for everyone,.. I just reply I see around here about making money.

    @HeissRod do your records happen to know how many days we had no dailies for?. 

    Sorry, @RobGripes.  That's not something I took the time to make note of.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,289 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    RobGripes said:
    Basil said:

    I think you forget some things. Assuming you play the way Hutch want you to play, and assuming you win every time with 1 star => You would end up in T1 (as you win every race). So, in this case,... you forget about the gold you are winning (or does this not count?).

    When you stick up for average farmers (good of you to think of them :-)) They will not win every race or maybe even 20% of the races. But also there, previously they would not win all the smurfing races you did, don't you think?

    It's impressive to see the maths you do (and I'm glas that some of you guys try to make this game better for all of us instead of just moaning about the money and don't come up with real proposals) but I'm afraid the days of smurfing and be able to end up in T1-T2 are over. I see that you have a lot of Posts so I assume that you are around here from the beginning and that your garage is an average garage. You might be able to pull of some T2's or even sometimes a T1 but for beginning players I'm afraid that this is an illusion (or they have to play for 10 years).

    I'm a p2w player as I don't have 10 hours a day to play TD . I can say that I spend around 500 Euro a moth on this game during the 1 year I play now and it is VERY difficult to end up in T1 (I play around 50-60 races per event). Do the maths on my spending , buying CF, winning Ceramics with it and sometimes CF and you will see that 'getting by' with smurfing (especially when you start) is nowadays not possible.

    Instead of focussing on earning more money with farming I think that Hutch has to mast one / week) where beginners and farmers have a real go to top prizes and imo this is only possible with low RQ events.

    I see a lot of moaning around here for loss of money but then I think : How many of you are just complaining to complain that smurfing isn't possible anymore but in the end of the day they just do late joining have a go for T1-T2. Where is the smurfing there ????

    Still, you do a great job by working together with Hutch to make this game better for everyone,.. I just reply I see around here about making money.

    @HeissRod do your records happen to know how many days we had no dailies for?. 

    Sorry, @RobGripes.  That's not something I took the time to make note of.

    No worries. I thought of you first but if you didn't record it, nobody did.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All old saved hands are gone ok. But all my recent used saved hands disappear too when i log in next. I give up.
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Just a quick update: we continue to investigate hand auto-forgetting for an urgent fix (we've found something, now verifying if that really is it).

    Regarding prize board rebalancing, in terms of the transition, the Daily only just has the new end-of-event prizes now, and the weekly challenge prizes will be higher from next week, so it's still in progress. (I'll just note that we had Clubs + Daily + old prize boards all at once for the last 18 days or so).

    As with the removal of the Daily, we're looking at what this change does to daily play for players of different types, and we're also listening to how people are finding it in practice. Behaviour is a bit unusual as there are also a lot of new cars to collect and upgrade. I'll give a more detailed early look at this tomorrow.
    @Hutch_Tim  Did I miss a post with the "detailed early look"? I know how this has affected my game play (not a single ticket used all day). I'm interested to know if I'm in the minority here or if you're seeing a wholesale downturn in play from your more active players?
  • MSteeLMSteeL Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Im not playing untill this stupid hand "saving" bug isnt fixed. 
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Ninja, I did see that post but from the comment he gave I was expecting a very high level look at player behaviour. My expectations were a tad high I guess.

    Steel, right there with you buddy. I'm not playing events at all until theres some sort of fix for the auto hand bug. I just have absolutely zero interest in setting a hand for every single race I start. When I was playing yesterday the amount of times I went into autopilot hitting play and realising it had reset to a smurf hand when I was trying to push up just destroyed...and i mean truly and utterly...my will to play a single ticket until the issue is sorted.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just thought I’d say, the saved hand feature is working fine for me on all 3 events at the moment, and the challenge 👍
  • MSteeLMSteeL Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dont believe you! 
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its not working for me, jumped back to a hand from another event each time i placed my hand in the dailies. Not gonna enter further events, its the oppsoite of fun to race with that happening.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MSteeL said:
    I dont believe you! 
    It wasn’t yesterday and I was highly critical, but it’s been fine this afternoon. 
    When it works it’s actually quite good 
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Posts: 637 admin
    Blue2moro said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Just a quick update: we continue to investigate hand auto-forgetting for an urgent fix (we've found something, now verifying if that really is it).

    Regarding prize board rebalancing, in terms of the transition, the Daily only just has the new end-of-event prizes now, and the weekly challenge prizes will be higher from next week, so it's still in progress. (I'll just note that we had Clubs + Daily + old prize boards all at once for the last 18 days or so).

    As with the removal of the Daily, we're looking at what this change does to daily play for players of different types, and we're also listening to how people are finding it in practice. Behaviour is a bit unusual as there are also a lot of new cars to collect and upgrade. I'll give a more detailed early look at this tomorrow.
    @Hutch_Tim  Did I miss a post with the "detailed early look"? I know how this has affected my game play (not a single ticket used all day). I'm interested to know if I'm in the minority here or if you're seeing a wholesale downturn in play from your more active players?
    You didn't miss a post - I've been looking into it (player earnings and activity, split by RQ, and also looking specifically at the 1% most active RQ150 players) but the first few days of an update are always very skewed in terms of behaviour (activity spikes a lot in the first 2 days), which I should have remembered, so sorry for not being able to deliver yet. I've been trying to clean the spiked behaviour out but there isn't really enough post-spike data yet. Once today is done I can add that to the analysis and I'll share how that looks tomorrow.

    Things will likely change further - the auto-forget-hand bug will change things a bit, and trends become clearer over time - but it should be clear enough for an early look.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,635 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    MSteeL said:
    I dont believe you! 
    It wasn’t yesterday and I was highly critical, but it’s been fine this afternoon. 
    When it works it’s actually quite good 
    Ok it’s broken again in the daily for me today 👎
  • basualdillobasualdillo Posts: 5
    It is impossible to play with the problem of changing your hands and losing the saved hands...
  • bantel_catbantel_cat Posts: 944 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    BoxtaS said:
    MSteeL said:
    I dont believe you! 
    It wasn’t yesterday and I was highly critical, but it’s been fine this afternoon. 
    When it works it’s actually quite good 
    Ok it’s broken again in the daily for me today 👎
    Yep me too.
    When the autosave works it is fantastic. But when it doesn't and you have to change your hand for every single race it is quite possibly the most annoying thing since Joe Dolce denied Ultravox the Christmas Number 1.
  • KeatingKeating Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Am piling up all those D/E/F GR BMWs and VW and thinking why am I even doing that?
    Wasting garage space for cars that will almost never be used and that I dont have the resources to upgrade anyway.
    It’s a lot of them, a lot.
    Don’t even bother too collect any Low RQ cards anymore. Hutch has completely done away with low RQ events other than the occasional club events which usually no one play. Hutch only makes events where they know they can sell 1599g CFs to 0.1% of the player base sadly. It was a waste of Hutch’s time and energy to include all these low RQ cars when they know there’s no real use for them.
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