918 Spyder Owner Club Final [Event]

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Comments

  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 5,177 ✭✭✭✭✭
    2 Legendaries & 2 (soon to be) Epics .... must be hard. lol
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    HeissRod said:
    This is what I'm getting at @HeissRod if they know the event isn't going to fill why structure it around 100 players and cause all this angst. 
    The people complaining about the lower tier prizes have been around long enough to know that any angst towards those lower tiers is unwarranted, as they never fill.  This isn't Hutch's fault, this is the fault of people yelling before they think.
    Then it's bad client relationship management.  

    We don't know how many 918s are still in the game but it feels like a decent amount.  

    Building 100 or 500 player brackets sends an implicit message and sets an expectation about how big the brackets will get.  Hutch HAVE the data.  They can build appropriate sized brackets and avoid all this drama.  

    I can't understand why you wouldn't do so.  If they cap the brackets at 30 the message can be "hey guys just for entering you get a food epic" and we can all be winners, go home and romance the prom queen happy with things, even if the t4 finishers only get a ceramic.

    It's not like any of us are going to go "oH nOEs, TD dOesN'T HaVE 10 GaJiLLioN PlaYErZ" and rage quit   If we work out that there are only 1-200 918 winning accounts still in the game is it?  
    Yep, that's a valid question. There are two reasons we can't do this.

    First, the number of 918 owners is not distributed evenly across the different servers, but we don't have the functionality to run different sized leaderboards. So we have to pick one leaderboard size for all.

    Second, even with all the data, we can never be exactly certain how many players will show up. Suppose 60% of 918 owners are still active, how big should the leaderboards be? Enough to accommodate 70%? But then if one extra person shows up, the very last person to enter gets a free T1. You'd probably go with something higher to be safe, and it still would most likely look worse than it is.

    There's no perfect solution but we could for example:
    - Just for this event have all server players on one leaderboard, making numbers more predictable and even
    - Have prize tiers based on % position so it scales dynamically

    But either one of those is quite substantial work, for something that only happens (currently) a bit less than every 2 months, for a very small slice of the Top Drives population. It's a very important slice of course, but it's still hard to prioritise anything like that over things that everyone can experience.

    An alternative is we come up with some entirely different way to do this... I'm not sure what this is though. An additional event with big prizes where having the prize car is a huge advantage? We can't always design such an event though, and it also still means owners get one less event than everyone else.

    Or, we allow previous owners into the regular Final (as long as the prize car doesn't give an advantage there, which we can probably avoid), and then anyone who gets a duplicate gets it (manually) swapped for something else afterwards?! Although balancing that 'something else' would likely leave nobody happy I suspect, and all the players that come top T2 would likely complain that previous winners are keeping them out. I'm just not sure.
    Thanks for the reply Tim. Yes of course you can't know EXACTLY how many people are going to show up, but I bet you're accurate to within 10%.  

    As it was in my bracket I think around half the players got out with a ceramic.  

    Substantially better than the prize final certainly, but given how stiff the competition was and how poor the prize cars were and how long most of these players have supported the game that's still more than a little "meh" in my opinion.

    How do you think the owners brackets went? I know you guys aren't happy with the format in general, but we're you happy with the sort of garages that were getting a carbon and the cut-offs?
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Guess this bracket issue is old news now that the new patch is out and no longer warrants a comment from Hutch, move along, we’ve got new cars everything is fine. 
  • LEGENDNADALEGENDNADA Posts: 970 ✭✭✭✭
    Guess this bracket issue is old news now that the new patch is out and no longer warrants a comment from Hutch, move along, we’ve got new cars everything is fine. 
    I think we won't get owner events again, challenge time
  • StrixStrix Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    Guess this bracket issue is old news now that the new patch is out and no longer warrants a comment from Hutch, move along, we’ve got new cars everything is fine. 
    You are probably right, but I would really like to see one.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Strix said:
    Guess this bracket issue is old news now that the new patch is out and no longer warrants a comment from Hutch, move along, we’ve got new cars everything is fine. 
    You are probably right, but I would really like to see one.
    I wouldn’t hold your breath. 
  • StrixStrix Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
    Haha, holding my wallet only. ;)
  • tichoblintichoblin Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Btw guys, how to finish spyder? 969 or 699?
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 2,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    tichoblin said:
    Btw guys, how to finish spyder? 969 or 699?
    699, although mine is 993. 

    Please do not post in here, I got excited there thinking @Hutch_Tim was going to shed some light on what happened. 
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Posts: 623 admin
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Thanks for the reply Tim. Yes of course you can't know EXACTLY how many people are going to show up, but I bet you're accurate to within 10%.  

    As it was in my bracket I think around half the players got out with a ceramic.  

    Substantially better than the prize final certainly, but given how stiff the competition was and how poor the prize cars were and how long most of these players have supported the game that's still more than a little "meh" in my opinion.

    How do you think the owners brackets went? I know you guys aren't happy with the format in general, but we're you happy with the sort of garages that were getting a carbon and the cut-offs?
    True, we can probably estimate how many people will show up to within 10%, but that only means the most popular server has about the right bracket size, all the others would have too few people in them. (Maybe if we supported VPN'ing people could even it out for us... I don't think that's a very sensible solution though!)

    For me, the worst things about the Owner's events are:
    1) The leaderboards not-filling bug, where new brackets open up before the first one fills, creating even bigger discrepancies than the servers do. I thought that might have been fixed as it seemed related to the server issues we were having, but maybe not.
    2) The emergent fact that a score of 0 is very good, so late-joining becomes the best tactic. Again, I wasn't certain that would be the case in an Owner's event with more participants, but here it is happening again.

    Even fixing (1) doesn't solve for (2), so we really should do this a different way.

    So for now, as this remains unsolved: we won't be re-running old Tri-Series for the forseeable future.

  • binnerbinner Posts: 588 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:

    "So for now, as this remains unsolved: we won't be re-running old Tri-Series for the forseeable future." 

    Very sensible solution until this problem is fixed! Thanks for the update
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And i was already excited for a P1 re-run. 
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    Thanks for the reply Tim. Yes of course you can't know EXACTLY how many people are going to show up, but I bet you're accurate to within 10%.  

    As it was in my bracket I think around half the players got out with a ceramic.  

    Substantially better than the prize final certainly, but given how stiff the competition was and how poor the prize cars were and how long most of these players have supported the game that's still more than a little "meh" in my opinion.

    How do you think the owners brackets went? I know you guys aren't happy with the format in general, but we're you happy with the sort of garages that were getting a carbon and the cut-offs?
    True, we can probably estimate how many people will show up to within 10%, but that only means the most popular server has about the right bracket size, all the others would have too few people in them. (Maybe if we supported VPN'ing people could even it out for us... I don't think that's a very sensible solution though!)

    For me, the worst things about the Owner's events are:
    1) The leaderboards not-filling bug, where new brackets open up before the first one fills, creating even bigger discrepancies than the servers do. I thought that might have been fixed as it seemed related to the server issues we were having, but maybe not.
    2) The emergent fact that a score of 0 is very good, so late-joining becomes the best tactic. Again, I wasn't certain that would be the case in an Owner's event with more participants, but here it is happening again.

    Even fixing (1) doesn't solve for (2), so we really should do this a different way.

    So for now, as this remains unsolved: we won't be re-running old Tri-Series for the forseeable future.

    Thanks is again for the response.  I think avoiding these events for the time being is the right call to make.  100% in agreement aboit the two issues you raise, they do really impact on the quality of the event.  The second is a bit of a bette noir for me, timing event entry to be most advantageous is a part of the meta I could 100% live without.

    The question I really wanted you to answer was around the prizes (obvs, we all want more and better lewtz).  How did you feel about the sort of hands that were required for top end prizes?  

    It's reasonable to expect competition in owners clubs events to be stiffer for sure, and those that were strong enough for the top tier made out like bandits, a 5x CF is a great reward and one we don't see very often.

    There are two issues that have been raised here that I want to try and bring up again, firstly the prize car, a little stingy no?  At gt2 rs might have been too much to ask for, perhaps in future you could use your new (?) more granular abilities to make packs?  Say 5xcf AND a pack with only one car, a guaranteed legendary Porsche (in this instance, swap manufacturers or car type or region as appropriate).

    Selfishly my concern was lower down, particularly the boundary to the CFs.  You have the data, I don't, so I can only speak to my bracket, but it felt like some pretty serious hands weren't even reaching the CF level. Can you speak a bit more to this?

    Thanks again.
  • LEGENDNADALEGENDNADA Posts: 970 ✭✭✭✭
    Nothing going to change now:) 

    Anyone entered yet? What are the top hands?
    Yeh, fallen on deaf ears again by the looks of it, shame. 

    Top hands are as many Numero9 as you can muster really, failing that Bugatti if they’re upgraded and the rest are filled with Survolts/trezors or CXperience although it’s pretty rubbish even maxed. 
    This game is getting really ridiculous now with all the carbon fiber packs offered during every finals. Us f2p guys are so far behind, we might as well be playing the beta. I don't have a single epic French Renaissance car. All I ever get is the clio cup car from the 6+ ones I have brought smh
    Don't take it personal even p2w players including me with 5 FR epics and a legendary can't compete with others. IT HURTS
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @bluedogsnoop thanks for digging that thread out - a trip down memory lane. And so many fallen forum soldiers 
  • Evil_RabbitEvil_Rabbit Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    491 in the current EU bracket
    Tnx, is it really 500 in the owners club... fighting for  ceramic...  gonna wait then :)
    No, 36 is the most I’ve heard of. 
    Thought so to...  anyway, gonna be a latw late join any way, got no hand...
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