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Economy balance update, 28th June 2019

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  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 904 ✭✭✭✭

    For not racing any event you get Blue rewards + Light blue for experience.

  • basualdillobasualdillo Posts: 5
    Another one that is playing less with the last changes. And i am getting bored...
  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭

    Sorry guys (and start shooting or disagreeing) but sometimes you have to read the things you are complaining about.

    Complaining that the cash earnings drop => I understand.

    Complaining that the servers are not good enoough => I understand.

    Complaining that you can late join to win a T1 car => Euh,.. wait ,.. you aren't complaining about that.


    In short => You want to smurf or you want to try T1 with late joining => YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH !!!! When late joining you have lost 3 days of earning money !!!


    Sorry, I just needed to say.

  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Basil said:

    Sorry guys (and start shooting or disagreeing) but sometimes you have to read the things you are complaining about.

    Complaining that the cash earnings drop => I understand.

    Complaining that the servers are not good enoough => I understand.

    Complaining that you can late join to win a T1 car => Euh,.. wait ,.. you aren't complaining about that.


    In short => You want to smurf or you want to try T1 with late joining => YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH !!!! When late joining you have lost 3 days of earning money !!!


    Sorry, I just needed to say.

    what are you on about, it's not like you have to smurf every single event or it stops working
  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    @Basil, there are complaints and discussions about and against the latejoining issue. Maybe read deeper in the forum and stop trolling us with senseless posts. Thanks.

    Hmm, I read deeper sorry for doing that. Look at the latest final thread. People begging to jump in a new bracket hoping to easy be T1-T2. Same people who keep complaining about the money issue.

    I'm just a witness of you guys posting these things and it is easy to accuse me of posting 'senseless posts'. Show me your point !

  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    Basil said:

    Sorry guys (and start shooting or disagreeing) but sometimes you have to read the things you are complaining about.

    Complaining that the cash earnings drop => I understand.

    Complaining that the servers are not good enoough => I understand.

    Complaining that you can late join to win a T1 car => Euh,.. wait ,.. you aren't complaining about that.


    In short => You want to smurf or you want to try T1 with late joining => YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH !!!! When late joining you have lost 3 days of earning money !!!


    Sorry, I just needed to say.

    what are you on about, it's not like you have to smurf every single event or it stops working


    Yep, I agree on that. And you guys want to be able to compete without spending (much) money. Top Drive is like real life => When you don't have the money , you don't get anything unless you start being satisfied with what you have.

    I don't like this either , believe me. But that is the way it is. Hutch will stop Top Drive when they can't earn money on it. They don't do it just you guys can smurf the game. When you still believe that,.. hmm,..you can continue to complain

  • hifichrishifichris Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    Even the forum is falling down slowly....
  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    Oh yes,.. and again. It is not Hutch against us (or you guys as I'm sure you don't see me as a fellow player) . Tim and the others are doing a great job with this forum. Posts like 'I want my money back' or 'I'll quit this game' aren't helping are they ?
  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    Basil said:
    Basil said:

    Sorry guys (and start shooting or disagreeing) but sometimes you have to read the things you are complaining about.

    Complaining that the cash earnings drop => I understand.

    Complaining that the servers are not good enoough => I understand.

    Complaining that you can late join to win a T1 car => Euh,.. wait ,.. you aren't complaining about that.


    In short => You want to smurf or you want to try T1 with late joining => YOU CAN'T HAVE BOTH !!!! When late joining you have lost 3 days of earning money !!!


    Sorry, I just needed to say.

    what are you on about, it's not like you have to smurf every single event or it stops working


    Yep, I agree on that. And you guys want to be able to compete without spending (much) money. Top Drive is like real life => When you don't have the money , you don't get anything unless you start being satisfied with what you have.

    I don't like this either , believe me. But that is the way it is. Hutch will stop Top Drive when they can't earn money on it. They don't do it just you guys can smurf the game. When you still believe that,.. hmm,..you can continue to complain

      "you don't get anything unless you start being satisfied with what you have."

    it's actually the other way round, nothing changes if you're fine with what you have. And I see no reason why I should be fine with the rather poorly thought out moves and argumentation. And if reaches some certain treshold I'll simply leave.

    you seem to be confusing a mobile phone game with some important endeavor in real life. It's slowly becoming less fun and I have no obligation to put up with it. I'll signal the problems I see to the devs as they're communicating with us often (for what I'm really grateful) and I really want this game to succeed - as I really like it - but if nothing is done, why should I be okay with that? 
  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019

    Hi RobGribes - Evilproffeseur,


    thanks for your insight. At least one (and there are a few more) that take the time to explain their idea in a proper way. I play this game more than a year and I have seen the decrease in gold price (and drop of money) and don't forget to mention the 4WD-STD cars that slams around our head now and make me 'upgrade' my garage a lot since 'The renaissance' has been introduced.

    I do appreciate you guys who honestly give your good funded opinion with Hutch and I'm also convinced that Hutch is taken them into account (otherwise there would not be a forum on which they communicate).

    For me this Forum was a next level of playing the game but I'm about the point to leave it as it start effecting my in game play hapiness because of the negative reactions I get around here mainly because I try to understand all the negative fibes and , in my opinion, are also caused by the players themselves and by pushing eachother on this forum to just shout and moan (or in my threads, just disagree without arguments).

    This is not how I see forums,... your respons (and some others) shows me their are players who have the best interest in the game (also for Hutch) and I have a lot of respect for you early players . And again,.. I understand your concern.

  • MSteeLMSteeL Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    What a darn joke this game has become. The only bright star is Matt from support. If it wasnt for him, Id already have left❤️
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Basil if you do leave the forum, know you'll always be welcomed back no harm done. Everyone here is quite supportive of the game, each other etc. a Few black sheep, of course, there always are. 

    There has been a lot of positivity in the past, I promise. Maybe things will revert back, who knows.
  • 0171801718 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    Hello,

    first of all I want to say that the communication between developers and the community is exceptional and I am very grateful for Hutch listening to us, even if the majority here might not like the outcome.

    Personally, I really like Clubs. I would love to see it thrive. I also don't see my personal income drop (but im putting in unreasonable amounts of time T_T).

    Furthermore I want to point out, that I really care for the given statistics and while this might be a highly unpopular opinion, I do not believe, that, statistically, the folks in the forum represent the players very well. Naturally about 1% of people engage in online communication and we do not know how those few compare to the rest of the player base. On the other hand I do believe you guys when you say that you are unhappy with the changes and don't have as much fun as before. The forums might have da different impact, as they could influence player's opinions about the game. Unhappy forum users might harm the game's success, so Hutch should care.

    Also, there seems to be a systematic problem: Hutch introduced a new source of income, cash and gold from clubs. You can easily obtain 500 gold from clubs per week, you can also make more or less cash depending on the time spent with clubs. Hutch does not want the overall income to rise, as they fear their in game purchases might decline. Every measure they choose to equalize incomes to 8.1 sums will **** off someone who followed a certain strategy. Only players who adapt can return to their original incomes and that might require them to play more often or longer or in a different manner than before. Some might just not have the opportunity to do so.

    Adding to this, the inflation in cars (and the GR tag) requires players to boost up their garages. the number of cars in the game rises so much faster than my development, that I can, by no means, keep up with it. If i dream to ever 'own' the majority of available cars I will have to grind for years. This problem is enhanced, because we need so many F to C class cars in the club events. I can hardly follow with upgrading the different car sets to be competitive. So today i will need pickup trucks for wet, dirty and dry tracks. Meanwhile I need Lancias, Suzukis, Lotus and Hatches for the 3 ongoing events, too. The need for more and more upgraded cars just overwhelms me. Hutch, you should consider if the inflation you are talking about might be balanced by the new content you have given out. That is, we need more cash because we need more space and more cars and more upgrades so it is no problem if we have this cash. Are the in game purchases generated because we have high pressure on our garages or because there is competition between players? I think it is the latter and that might point to the assumption, that the inflation is not a problem at all.

    Also, I think Hutch should give the Clubs (even) more thoughts. I think garage wear largely limits the amount of races per club event. Maybe you can bring (enhanced) prize boards to Clubs and eliminate the daily event again? Please also check the duration club events are running. Is it even possible for those events to run four hours? If you could further reduce the amount of events in Clubs it would reduce the pressure to play constantly, it would reduce the stress on our garage diversity, and it would make single tiles more valuable and worhty to fight for. (I haven't thought this through, so there might be offsides as well.)

    I'm pretty sure Hutch is as passionate about TD as we are and they have all the experts to analyze and improve the game. However it is very complex and I wish you the best of luck to find a viable solution.
  • AnzatoroAnzatoro Posts: 316 ✭✭✭
    edited July 2019
    RobGripes said:
    Every action since the release of this game has been to increase the cost to the player. This is the latest. Hutch are turning players away and those guys are simply voicing their disapproval. 


    Exactly. Hutch like almost every other gaming company are slowly but steadily increasing the cost to everything ingame because they want more money, they will always do (which i despise because if you have a successful product that brings you money, DONT go greedy because you will lose what you already have by turning the players away).

    The latest actions from Hutch to eliminate smurfing have a simple meaning that follows the above: They did not have a satisfying income from cash packs in the shop because many players got their cash from smurfing, so eliminating it creates possibilities to raise the cash pack income because players will either buy (from starving) or leave.
     
    I really dont know if they are going to win that bet because for sure people who spend will quit, maybe Hutch will lose money eventually.

    Basil said:

    I play this game more than a year 


     Wait, i thought you said you play this game for 6 months or something, now its over a year?


  • 0171801718 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    Jeez I had a very long comment before but I clicked edit and now it seems to be gone.

    I'm going to try and cut it shorter this time:

    1. Im entirely thankful for the positive communication coming from Hutch, thank you Tim & others.
    2. I think those statistics are worth something. The Forum users do statistically not resemble the general population. However, happy forumers are a good indicator for a game's development and they can influence the opinion of many passive readers, so Hutch should care.
    3. Personally I do like Clubs and want to see it progress; I make a lot of cash (through gold upgrade) too, which is fine. However i spend too much time.
    4. Inflation! Hutch, please consider, if the inflation is really a problem. You have inflated the number of cars and through clubs you have also increased the number of cars that need upgrades. Clubs basically give us free gold and/or cash, which means inflation too. Perhaps both inflations equal each other out and we don't have a problem at all? After all, in game purchases are driven by competition and all players have the same opportunities to benefit from prizes. If you bring new prizes to the game but want to keep the overall revenue constant, you will always have to make cuts and you will always **** off someone, there is no way out, no matter how many rebalances you try to calibrate. Even if a system is fair, someone will feel like he has lost something.
    5. Put (even) more thoughts into clubs please. Can u bring Prize Boards to Clubs and remove the Daily again? Can you reduce the number of Club-Events (fights over tiles) so the pressure and stress for players is reduced?





  • MoogMoog Posts: 484 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm going against the grain on this one, but I'm kind of ok with the changes.
    Yes, I smurf a lot, no, I don't play clubs.
    I still make some money, I still only upgrade cars when I need to, it's kind of nice that not everyone has everything maxed all the time, especially multiples. People have to be careful on what they spend their money on.
    To balance this, the price of slots should be reduced though IMO.

  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Tim: Thanks for the detailed answer and statitstics once again. Can you please also consider checking players, who play the same amount of matches, and how much cash they earn now? I'd be surprised if the result would be anything other than that they earn less.
    Since PL 8.1 Clubs, what basically happened is this: you guys took the IG cash out of the pocket of players who had a few minutes to play every few hours a day, and put it into the pocket of players who have all the time in the world, and who can regularly finish T1/2 in most events. I'd hazard a guess that the outrage on the forum means that the majority here falls into the former category. I don't know how representative the forumers are though. I admit, sometimes we mistakenly assume that everyone else plays this game as we do. But still I hope our opinion matters.
  • MrpiratepeteMrpiratepete Posts: 968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    I'd hazard a guess that the outrage on the forum means that the majority here falls into the former category. I don't know how representative the forumers are though. I admit, sometimes we mistakenly assume that everyone else plays this game as we do. But still I hope our opinion matters.
    The difference is, the people on the forum are the ones who actively talk to Hutch and give feedback to improve this game. Thats something very important and as you said, i also do hope, that our opinion matters and that they appreciate all the work, time and thoughts that a lot of people on here have spent...
  • tichoblintichoblin Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    01718 said:
    Jeez I had a very long comment before but I clicked edit and now it seems to be gone.

    I'm going to try and cut it shorter this time:

    1. Im entirely thankful for the positive communication coming from Hutch, thank you Tim & others.
    2. I think those statistics are worth something. The Forum users do statistically not resemble the general population. However, happy forumers are a good indicator for a game's development and they can influence the opinion of many passive readers, so Hutch should care.
    3. Personally I do like Clubs and want to see it progress; I make a lot of cash (through gold upgrade) too, which is fine. However i spend too much time.
    4. Inflation! Hutch, please consider, if the inflation is really a problem. You have inflated the number of cars and through clubs you have also increased the number of cars that need upgrades. Clubs basically give us free gold and/or cash, which means inflation too. Perhaps both inflations equal each other out and we don't have a problem at all? After all, in game purchases are driven by competition and all players have the same opportunities to benefit from prizes. If you bring new prizes to the game but want to keep the overall revenue constant, you will always have to make cuts and you will always **** off someone, there is no way out, no matter how many rebalances you try to calibrate. Even if a system is fair, someone will feel like he has lost something.
    5. Put (even) more thoughts into clubs please. Can u bring Prize Boards to Clubs and remove the Daily again? Can you reduce the number of Club-Events (fights over tiles) so the pressure and stress for players is reduced?





    Shorter?
  • BasilBasil Posts: 366 ✭✭✭
    Anzatoro said:
    RobGripes said:
    Every action since the release of this game has been to increase the cost to the player. This is the latest. Hutch are turning players away and those guys are simply voicing their disapproval. 


    Exactly. Hutch like almost every other gaming company are slowly but steadily increasing the cost to everything ingame because they want more money, they will always do (which i despise because if you have a successful product that brings you money, DONT go greedy because you will lose what you already have by turning the players away).

    The latest actions from Hutch to eliminate smurfing have a simple meaning that follows the above: They did not have a satisfying income from cash packs in the shop because many players got their cash from smurfing, so eliminating it creates possibilities to raise the cash pack income because players will either buy (from starving) or leave.
     
    I really dont know if they are going to win that bet because for sure people who spend will quit, maybe Hutch will lose money eventually.

    Basil said:

    I play this game more than a year 


     Wait, i thought you said you play this game for 6 months or something, now its over a year?


    442 days to be exact ! I realized I play this game more than a year when the 918 came back up as a price car.
  • 0171801718 Posts: 506 ✭✭✭
    tichoblin said:
    I'm going to try and cut it shorter this time:

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    Shorter?
    Yes much shorter and I hope the message was not lost. laying out observations, concepts and ideas takes some words

  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    01718 said:
    tichoblin said:
    I'm going to try and cut it shorter this time:

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
    Shorter?
    Yes much shorter and I hope the message was not lost. laying out observations, concepts and ideas takes some words


    I am partial to a long post. 
  • JayJay Posts: 2,562 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If they are being so stingy maybe they are not making enough money. It's like they are trying to keep it alive! Lets all abandon the sinking ship.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm not keeping the game alive cos I am still F2P after the welcome offer. Logically though I think they'd do better if they kept people spending, which isn't happening because people see the diminishing returns. 
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