Economy balance update, 28th June 2019

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  • BasilBasil Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    About inflation and stuff... for current finals you could buy the usual 15xCF, but did you notice the 3x german packs yesterday also fitted the criteria in parts, aswell as you have 2x extra chances with todays Jaguar packs. The amount of SLS and F-Types is immense, i see some very funky low trophy hands.
    This event show up a problem the steady special CF sale causes. Its not enough anymore to have specific cars, you need doubles or even triple epics, maxed ofcourse.
    I still like to hear a response from anyone at Hutch, @Hutch_Tim maybe?, justifying the flood of CF packs and cutting down funds for all events. We know the reason is to make more money. But do you really think this will help to keep the game playable for a long time? Hands full of french bananas or hellcats are nothing special anymore, even just few weeks after the cars release. This might frustrate a larger portion of the playerbase, as they never get the feeling to have a chance at all.
    Just some eraly morning thoughts after i saw what happend to the hands around me in my finals bracket which is open for more than 36 hours. looks like tonight was big spending time haha.
    This is a post I agree on completely. Besides that events seem to kling together (like the Jag and Dodge event where you both need the F-type to be able to get in T1) and players that miss this specific car with CF's in the first event have 3 extra chances to get it in the 2nd event, you will have the fact that these specific cars need to go to the garage because you play with this car a lot. Does Hutch do this becasue they think they can collect gold via that way also? I can imagine. The problem is, like in this case for me, I don't have this specific car , and I feel hopeless in both events. The only way to try to stay in T1-T2 is by playing a lot because the other players win easily against me.
    I also see more and more 3 Hellcats, 3 Bugatti's, 3 SLS or F-types and so on. Perhabs this is the normal way a game like this goes. I hope that Hutch will take on the challange to think more about the restrictions of an event (especially on the big events where you can win great cars). These events should have restrictions that allow a lot of different hands to be able to get in T1-T2. I understand it is not an easy task. Personally I see a big potential in the D-E-F cars and combinations with that and High RQ cars. Fi in events you are obliged to use a D-E or F car or combinations. In that way you have a lot of possible solutions.
  • BasilBasil Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Once they eliminate late joining, the game will be basically dead for every F2P. I already feel hopelessly uncompetitive (is there such a word?). I understand that they don't care about F2P, they can come and go, it's P2W they want to keep. But I'm sorry, I'll never be able to justify spending money on a game depending this much on luck, it's called gambling. And it's not a very rewarding one either.
    I agree on this. but I can't think of 1 on-line game with in-app purchasing that let you compete in a good way as a F2P player. The luck in TD is helping the F2P players a little bit (and I say again: a little little bit). Imagine that money would ALWAYS give you the best cars then F2P players would loose interest straight away, don't you think?
    From Hutch's point of view I think everybody understands that they need to earn money, otherwise there is no game or they stop this game. I'm sure they want to keep the balance between F2P and P2P as ok as possible. That they succeed in this is or not feels different for every player. Personally, when I just focus on the potential great cards I could win, I think they do. In the weekly event, I don't compete with P2P players and with the ceramic I could win a Bugatti (ok, chances are very very slim, but it is possible). I would love to see that Hutch expant this kind of racing much more. I'm dreaming of an on-going Campaign. Every month a new campaign which you can do. When I was a F2P player I REALLY enjoyed that. I was not confronted all the time with players who had 3 Bugatti's or 4 Hellcats maxed. When they combine this with the events they do nowadays maybe F2P players last longer and play with on going satisfaction because they get rewarded more for their efforts. What do you guys think?
  • BasilBasil Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Basil said:
    Ozzman said:
    Once they eliminate late joining, the game will be basically dead for every F2P. I already feel hopelessly uncompetitive (is there such a word?). I understand that they don't care about F2P, they can come and go, it's P2W they want to keep. But I'm sorry, I'll never be able to justify spending money on a game depending this much on luck, it's called gambling. And it's not a very rewarding one either.
    I agree on this. but I can't think of 1 on-line game with in-app purchasing that let you compete in a good way as a F2P player. The luck in TD is helping the F2P players a little bit (and I say again: a little little bit). Imagine that money would ALWAYS give you the best cars then F2P players would loose interest straight away, don't you think?
    From Hutch's point of view I think everybody understands that they need to earn money, otherwise there is no game or they stop this game. I'm sure they want to keep the balance between F2P and P2P as ok as possible. That they succeed in this is or not feels different for every player. Personally, when I just focus on the potential great cards I could win, I think they do. In the weekly event, I don't compete with P2P players and with the ceramic I could win a Bugatti (ok, chances are very very slim, but it is possible). I would love to see that Hutch expant this kind of racing much more. I'm dreaming of an on-going Campaign. Every month a new campaign which you can do. When I was a F2P player I REALLY enjoyed that. I was not confronted all the time with players who had 3 Bugatti's or 4 Hellcats maxed. When they combine this with the events they do nowadays maybe F2P players last longer and play with on going satisfaction because they get rewarded more for their efforts. What do you guys think?
    There are valid points in what you say, but the F2P/P2W balance was just right until they started this CF madness for every single event. I felt like my garage is getting better, slowly, very slowly, but I felt some progress, and it kept me going. Now that progress is just gone (well, not gone, but overshadowed by many other players insane progress), so now I feel like I'm going backwards. And there's no fun in that.
    Do you think it makes a different that you can buy specific CF for each event or that you can buy CF not related to the event? I never stood still with this but you might be right that players are persuated faster to buy specific CF's instead of random CF's. This might also explain the (possible) new strategy to kling events. You need a Jag for the big event to compete for T1 and they put an event with Jag's straight after the big event so that players experienced that they need the jag. Smart thinking (from the point of making money). For some reason I feel the same as you. I'm a p2p player and at some time I had the feeling 'I was almost there', at a point I could compete in EVERY event. Now I just notice that getting in T1 (or T2) is hard, even with a garage that I have. When I'm thinking about this more and more the words of HutchTim come to mind: 'You need to specialize'. I don't like this because it might ruin my on going game experience but he might be right.
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    Basil said:
    Ozzman said:
    Basil said:
    Ozzman said:
    Once they eliminate late joining, the game will be basically dead for every F2P. I already feel hopelessly uncompetitive (is there such a word?). I understand that they don't care about F2P, they can come and go, it's P2W they want to keep. But I'm sorry, I'll never be able to justify spending money on a game depending this much on luck, it's called gambling. And it's not a very rewarding one either.
    I agree on this. but I can't think of 1 on-line game with in-app purchasing that let you compete in a good way as a F2P player. The luck in TD is helping the F2P players a little bit (and I say again: a little little bit). Imagine that money would ALWAYS give you the best cars then F2P players would loose interest straight away, don't you think?
    From Hutch's point of view I think everybody understands that they need to earn money, otherwise there is no game or they stop this game. I'm sure they want to keep the balance between F2P and P2P as ok as possible. That they succeed in this is or not feels different for every player. Personally, when I just focus on the potential great cards I could win, I think they do. In the weekly event, I don't compete with P2P players and with the ceramic I could win a Bugatti (ok, chances are very very slim, but it is possible). I would love to see that Hutch expant this kind of racing much more. I'm dreaming of an on-going Campaign. Every month a new campaign which you can do. When I was a F2P player I REALLY enjoyed that. I was not confronted all the time with players who had 3 Bugatti's or 4 Hellcats maxed. When they combine this with the events they do nowadays maybe F2P players last longer and play with on going satisfaction because they get rewarded more for their efforts. What do you guys think?
    There are valid points in what you say, but the F2P/P2W balance was just right until they started this CF madness for every single event. I felt like my garage is getting better, slowly, very slowly, but I felt some progress, and it kept me going. Now that progress is just gone (well, not gone, but overshadowed by many other players insane progress), so now I feel like I'm going backwards. And there's no fun in that.
    Do you think it makes a different that you can buy specific CF for each event or that you can buy CF not related to the event? I never stood still with this but you might be right that players are persuated faster to buy specific CF's instead of random CF's. This might also explain the (possible) new strategy to kling events. You need a Jag for the big event to compete for T1 and they put an event with Jag's straight after the big event so that players experienced that they need the jag. Smart thinking (from the point of making money). For some reason I feel the same as you. I'm a p2p player and at some time I had the feeling 'I was almost there', at a point I could compete in EVERY event. Now I just notice that getting in T1 (or T2) is hard, even with a garage that I have. When I'm thinking about this more and more the words of HutchTim come to mind: 'You need to specialize'. I don't like this because it might ruin my on going game experience but he might be right.
    Why do you think there are so many players with multiple Hellcats/Furais/Meganes. Those are absolutely dominant and OP cars, and at the time they were introduced, they were the only/among the few Epics of that certain manufacturer. So getting them from special CFs was much easier. A Dodge or a Mazda CF gave you a Hellcat/Furai with a 20% probability. Someone who bought 15 of these pretty much surely got one, or more. That's the problem.
    PS: I try to open all the Mazda/Dodge/Renaul CFs I can with my little saved F2P gold, so far I managed to find 1 Hellacat, no Furai, no Megane.
  • BasilBasil Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    Ozzman said:
    Basil said:
    Ozzman said:
    Basil said:
    Ozzman said:
    Once they eliminate late joining, the game will be basically dead for every F2P. I already feel hopelessly uncompetitive (is there such a word?). I understand that they don't care about F2P, they can come and go, it's P2W they want to keep. But I'm sorry, I'll never be able to justify spending money on a game depending this much on luck, it's called gambling. And it's not a very rewarding one either.
    I agree on this. but I can't think of 1 on-line game with in-app purchasing that let you compete in a good way as a F2P player. The luck in TD is helping the F2P players a little bit (and I say again: a little little bit). Imagine that money would ALWAYS give you the best cars then F2P players would loose interest straight away, don't you think?
    From Hutch's point of view I think everybody understands that they need to earn money, otherwise there is no game or they stop this game. I'm sure they want to keep the balance between F2P and P2P as ok as possible. That they succeed in this is or not feels different for every player. Personally, when I just focus on the potential great cards I could win, I think they do. In the weekly event, I don't compete with P2P players and with the ceramic I could win a Bugatti (ok, chances are very very slim, but it is possible). I would love to see that Hutch expant this kind of racing much more. I'm dreaming of an on-going Campaign. Every month a new campaign which you can do. When I was a F2P player I REALLY enjoyed that. I was not confronted all the time with players who had 3 Bugatti's or 4 Hellcats maxed. When they combine this with the events they do nowadays maybe F2P players last longer and play with on going satisfaction because they get rewarded more for their efforts. What do you guys think?
    There are valid points in what you say, but the F2P/P2W balance was just right until they started this CF madness for every single event. I felt like my garage is getting better, slowly, very slowly, but I felt some progress, and it kept me going. Now that progress is just gone (well, not gone, but overshadowed by many other players insane progress), so now I feel like I'm going backwards. And there's no fun in that.
    Do you think it makes a different that you can buy specific CF for each event or that you can buy CF not related to the event? I never stood still with this but you might be right that players are persuated faster to buy specific CF's instead of random CF's. This might also explain the (possible) new strategy to kling events. You need a Jag for the big event to compete for T1 and they put an event with Jag's straight after the big event so that players experienced that they need the jag. Smart thinking (from the point of making money). For some reason I feel the same as you. I'm a p2p player and at some time I had the feeling 'I was almost there', at a point I could compete in EVERY event. Now I just notice that getting in T1 (or T2) is hard, even with a garage that I have. When I'm thinking about this more and more the words of HutchTim come to mind: 'You need to specialize'. I don't like this because it might ruin my on going game experience but he might be right.
    Why do you think there are so many players with multiple Hellcats/Furais/Meganes. Those are absolutely dominant and OP cars, and at the time they were introduced, they were the only/among the few Epics of that certain manufacturer. So getting them from special CFs was much easier. A Dodge or a Mazda CF gave you a Hellcat/Furai with a 20% probability. Someone who bought 15 of these pretty much surely got one, or more. That's the problem.
    PS: I try to open all the Mazda/Dodge/Renaul CFs I can with my little saved F2P gold, so far I managed to find 1 Hellacat, no Furai, no Megane.

    The Hellcat is just an example (I've seen on this forum a guy once who had 5 of them). Look at the Viper event. In my bracket there are different players with 2 specific Jag's. I have never noticed this Jag to be of such important in another event , so I did not hold on to this when I pulled one. Ok, I'm no expert in this game but keeping 2 ??? I see this nowadays in every important event. It seems to me that , when you want to compete in the future (or even now), you have to double your garage above C-level. C-level and lower are just interesting for the weekly event, or Clubs , but I don't like that part of the game. I sometimes try it but after 5x playing against the same hands of Hutch-... I'm done.
    I was thinking some hours ago about the daily reward. Personally I collect it but it does not give me much satisfaction. Thinking of the idea of having continious campaign, why don't Hutch use the daily reward on a contnious campaign. Let us players play some races to collect this reward and maybe, when you complete every day for a whole month, let the last race of the month be a race for a CF. I don't think that will change much on the Economic balance of Hutch, does it?
    The Economic balance Hutch is walking on seems to be going in the direction of p2p players (I mostly base this on what you guys say on this forum). I think that Hutch has to be very careful with that, because amongst those F2p players are also players who spend a little bit of money and before Hutch will know , they will be cutting in their own hand 'pushing' p2p players away , because, where do you stop? When will they notice they went too far and are they able to regain trust and players? Difficult matter, I hope the Hutch guys figure a way that f2p players are still wanting to play. I spend a lot of money but some day soon I will stop doing this and I hope that I can still play as a f2p player,... I wonder about this . I'm just afraid I can't.

    PS: I open a lot of the special CF's and I haven't got much luck lately. It seems I have more luck with the regular packs.
  • RWareRWare Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting post @AndreasSimmer and I have to agree with you.

    We all saw the 5 x Furai hands when dailies were on the old rotation ages ago, and plenty of people have seen the 5 x Chiron hands.

    How long before it's necessary to have 5 x Banana, 5 x Hellcat, 5 x Slick Porsche - cos someone is going to get there.

    With double and triple becoming a necessary objective just for 1 CF prize nowadays - is it worth looking at the (dare I say it) prospect of limiting unique marques in a hand?
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RWare said:
    Interesting post @AndreasSimmer and I have to agree with you.

    We all saw the 5 x Furai hands when dailies were on the old rotation ages ago, and plenty of people have seen the 5 x Chiron hands.

    How long before it's necessary to have 5 x Banana, 5 x Hellcat, 5 x Slick Porsche - cos someone is going to get there.

    With double and triple becoming a necessary objective just for 1 CF prize nowadays - is it worth looking at the (dare I say it) prospect of limiting unique marques in a hand?
    I think it would be worth a try with a regular ceramic event to see if it causes an outrage or not. I think it would though, because of all the players who invested in all those multiple copies of the same car. But personally I wouldn't be against it, having zero fuses on legendaries, and only a handful of maxed epics, and not many duplicates either.
  • SSVSSV Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    Maybe Hutch will try to fix the problem of monster hands dominating events by ‘rescaling the RQ system’. Tim mentioned in the German Renaissance thread that he thinks ‘rescaling’ is overdue given there are so many cars in the game now. If the top legendaries are increased from RQ30 to RQ40(just to pick a random number), and all other cars are adjusted upward to suit, it would mean typical events with RQ110 or RQ135 requirements couldn’t be dominated by multiple legendaries the way they are now...?
  • RWareRWare Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Multiple Legends isn't the entire problem. It does contribute though.

    Triple Jag F Type, Triple Hellcat, Triple Banana, Quad Furai hands are the problem. And when you're sat at the sideline with 0 of these meta cars.....what are you going to do?
  • BasilBasil Posts: 364 ✭✭✭
    RWare said:
    Multiple Legends isn't the entire problem. It does contribute though.

    Triple Jag F Type, Triple Hellcat, Triple Banana, Quad Furai hands are the problem. And when you're sat at the sideline with 0 of these meta cars.....what are you going to do?
    It might help when Hutch also use requirements using the RQ ; like 1 car max RQ10 + 1 German car + 1 car C
    What do you think ?
  • hunghung Posts: 9
    The problem is not double/triple cars but is the standardize of events.

    The events RQ are always 100+, you can use 3 best A + 2 best B cars in garage.

    The race tracks are not designed, you can always use same best hands without any problem.

    In combination, you will need multiple best cars instead of wide range of cars--be use wide range of cars is Hutch target before, but it becomes totally pointless now
  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    RWare said:
    Multiple Legends isn't the entire problem. It does contribute though.

    Triple Jag F Type, Triple Hellcat, Triple Banana, Quad Furai hands are the problem. And when you're sat at the sideline with 0 of these meta cars.....what are you going to do?
    The issue isn’t having multiples of one or two cars, as anyone can have streaky luck. It’s people who have multiples of all of the important ones. I have three Furais and three F-Type Convertibles, plus various other doubles at Epic and Legendary. Most pulled from prize CFs or cash Ceramics. I still have no yellow Megane, Superlight, yellow Challenger, or any Legendary Nissan, and I only have one Veyron. 
    Post edited by James_Pearce on
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bump, because this thread should be page one.
  • lukec436lukec436 Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    I've outlined a few potential solutions.


    3. Find a way to keep your old players. Fast. We're losing interest and so will other people. I don't care if it is a Moby Dick style event, just make us slightly interested.

    4. Please make the campaign prize boards regenerable. Maybe once every month or two. The boss prize boards could do with a little waiting, maybe 6 months.
    These last two are the biggest ones for me.
    we haven’t had one of those multi prize car events in a long time. I’m hoping the VW Camper event comes soon, but until then, this game is starting to look more and more dead in the water with less and less keeping us interested. Regenerating the prize boards would heavily boost playtime, but only for so long. 

    Unless current prize boards are fixed, things aren’t looking up anytime soon.
  • MoogMoog Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭
    Add prize cars to normal packs after 12 months of them being exclusive to allow people to catch up.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,387 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    lukec436 said:
    TGPD said:
    I've outlined a few potential solutions.


    3. Find a way to keep your old players. Fast. We're losing interest and so will other people. I don't care if it is a Moby Dick style event, just make us slightly interested.

    4. Please make the campaign prize boards regenerable. Maybe once every month or two. The boss prize boards could do with a little waiting, maybe 6 months.
    We haven’t had one of those multi prize car events in a long time..
    It's only been 2½ months since the TransAm>Rebel>GT3 event.  In Top Drives world, that's not that long honestly.
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    lukec436 said:
    TGPD said:
    I've outlined a few potential solutions.


    3. Find a way to keep your old players. Fast. We're losing interest and so will other people. I don't care if it is a Moby Dick style event, just make us slightly interested.

    4. Please make the campaign prize boards regenerable. Maybe once every month or two. The boss prize boards could do with a little waiting, maybe 6 months.
    We haven’t had one of those multi prize car events in a long time..
    It's only been 2½ months since the TransAm>Rebel>GT3 event.  In Top Drives world, that's not that long honestly.
    but it feels like forever. And honestly this one was terrible event. Just another time killer. 

    IGPRO with a lot of quick events with different end time and with increasing difficulty was really cool.
    Christmas 5 day offroad event was cool.
    Haloween offroad event was cool.
    Japan cars event was cool (dont remember for what ocasion it was)


  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,928 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The first pro igpro was additional to the normal event schedule, the second took place for normal events. This and the timeframe made a huge difference.I really liked the first one with 3 events starting at different times.
  • hunghung Posts: 9
    After IGPRO we don't have any pop-up event, last.year we have misty England or even 7 events at the same time. It's all gone now


  • hillclimberhillclimber Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Moog said:
    Add prize cars to normal packs after 12 months of them being exclusive to allow people to catch up.
    that was brought up before and after carefully thinking about it I think it could be the right balance between useless prize cars and snowballing. was it initially your idea? 

    I think this should be discussed further (instead of simply pressing disagree) and I would also like to hear hutch's opinion. 
  • MoogMoog Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭
    Moog said:
    Add prize cars to normal packs after 12 months of them being exclusive to allow people to catch up.
    that was brought up before and after carefully thinking about it I think it could be the right balance between useless prize cars and snowballing. was it initially your idea? 

    I think this should be discussed further (instead of simply pressing disagree) and I would also like to hear hutch's opinion. 
    Thanks Hillclimber, I do bring the idea up every now and then.
    Regarding people disagreeing, I've no problem with that, not all of my ideas are good ones, not all of my ideas will suit everyone. What I'm keen to avoid however is the "F1 situation", where the greater good never happens because people vote it down due to self interest (this may not be the case today, it might just be a poo idea :) )

  • hillclimberhillclimber Posts: 2,247 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    @BoxtaS, the fear of multiple 918s, PPs, and P1s is a good point. But it's not only limited to those prize cars but also as mentioned to the Chiron and maybe also to the 917 and the 962C in certain situations and other cars for sure too. A solution to that would be a general No-Duplicate requirement or maybe even better an individual tag so you can't run multiple instances of those monsters. Personally I don't like the idea of duplicates are always prohibited but for certain cars in certain events it would be an enrichment to the game.

    Also I see the argument of @Nacho101 and @Ultimate of owning something unique. Pls see also my point. I have some prize cars lie around and I find very little motivation to put any food into them, even the ZL1 1LE is still stock. It's a great car but why should I waste any resources on that car? That's not how it should be.
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