Slicks & RQ

2

Comments

  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.

    Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
  • binnerbinner Posts: 721 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Instead of manually adjusting "op" cars why not increase the RQ limit and maybe these cars would find a better home if the range for legendaries was wider. Say 35-40rq for legendaries. An increase in RQ is well overdue. Since it's gone from 25rq to 30rq I'm sure double the amount of cars have been added. Of course balancing issues are going to occur when the range for legendaries is still only 3rq but the amount of them is double 
  • RWareRWare Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think binner makes a valid point.

    We have waaaaay more marques in the game since the last RQ limit rise. So when we look at any RQ number, we can regularly see glaring differences with 2 cars.

    Where you think, "Why is car A not less than car B in RQ?"
  • joel24joel24 Posts: 709 ✭✭✭✭
    Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
  • 43MK443MK4 Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭✭✭
    joel24 said:
    Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
    They don’t test on all tracks to determine cars RQ. They have a representative set of tracks they use.
    How “representative” it is is another question.
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭✭
    43MK4 said:
    joel24 said:
    Just an off topic question,. When they said test on all tracks, do they test in all the 10-15 drag races? That wont be really fair tbh. So the drag specialists would go on to a higher rq than they are supposed to?
    They don’t test on all tracks to determine cars RQ. They have a representative set of tracks they use.
    How “representative” it is is another question.
    This is key.  It seems intuitively that the resolver should be using a weighted sample of the tracks actually used in events.
  • MSteeLMSteeL Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many suggested RQ increase to at least 35 like a year ago... What a surprise! 
  • TGPDTGPD Posts: 6,069 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lukec436 said:
    As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires. 

    The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.

    by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2. 

    Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible. 

    I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are. 

    I can see a proud slick tire car owner.
  • MrpiratepeteMrpiratepete Posts: 968 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders. 
    I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
    This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
  • UltimateUltimate Posts: 777 ✭✭✭✭✭
    lukec436 said:
    As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires. 

    The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.

    by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2. 

    Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible. 

    I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are. 

    Honestly performance tires aren’t that much better on anything other than dry asphalt. How likely is it that someone should pair up performance tires against slicks on snow twisty road?

    Maybe it’s not the case of adding rq to balance slicks but reducing rq on other cars so that they’re more competitive rq wise. A lot of under-used rq27 legendaries that probably be a lot more useful as epics anyway.
  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders. 
    I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
    This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
    I did say it was controversial! I disagree that it would cause more problems, I think it would just shift the problem to a smaller group. Not ideal, I know, but right now the situation is even worse. 
  • lukec436lukec436 Posts: 125 ✭✭✭
    TGPD said:
    lukec436 said:
    As of right now, I see almost no problem what so ever with the RQ of slick tires. 

    The whole point of them is that their use of very limited, being good for literally nothing but dry asphalt, however in return providing a huge advantage when they are able to be used.

    by messing with this dynamic, you are risking these cars no longer claiming their own niche. By increasing their RQ, these cars will no longer see much use, a fate seen by many cars, from the Volvo XC90 to the Hummer H2. 

    Whats more is that many of these cars sporting slick tires are already within 1-2 RQ of moving into a different class, and with all do respect, both you and I know that as many of these cars will be bumped a class as possible. 

    I beg, don’t touch the slicks. They’re fine as they are. 

    I can see a proud slick tire car owner.
    I’ve only got a few, but when they do get used, they save me a lot of hassle. I’d rather not lump them up with every other car by increasing their RQ. Do you catch my drift here?
  • StrixStrix Posts: 99 ✭✭✭
    RWare said:
    You're talking about Standard City street & Santa Monica versus every other track.

    Against the way slicks are better value RQ on EVERY dry asphalt track. Hardly a comparison.

    That's like saying we should bump up the RQ of Caterhams because theyre slalom specialists.
    That's how the RQ system works though. Medium height cars gets higher RQ than low cars not because they're generally faster, but because low cars have  the disadvantage on some tracks. For the same reason a normal tire car with the same stats as a perf tyre car will have higher RQ, even though they perform equal on dry tarmac. It's clear that slicks, following the same logic, should have lower RQ than a perf tyre car with equal performance, as it has more limited use.

    You can discuss how much more RQ value a slick car should give vs. a perf tyre car, but removing the advantage entirely would make slicks pointless. It would make slicks the least favourable option, while it in reality IS the best choice for dry asphalt. All I'm saying is that the game should still reflect that.

    I don't have a ton of great slick cars, but I think slicks should continue to be the best choice of tyres on dry asphalt nevertheless.
  • RWareRWare Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Some very valid and well-thought out posts above, previous 4-5 comments.

    I think there are a few factors which lead to the (in particular) Legend Porsche Slick's being ''OP''

    Well, slicks in general, are very very few and far between. The chance of pulling one of those from even a Porsche CF is so so low, you have to be very lucky to own one. (However, I did see a guy in the daily with 3 maxed 962c's, so there's that y'know...)

    Would the game benefit or suffer from more Slicks being available? And by being available, I mean slicks you can pull in packs, not Slicks which just get slapped behind a Prize Car barrier.

    I would also like to point out, that given the finale of the Moby Dick, I might finally be able to add a Slick Legend to my garage. This has been such a long campaign from myself, and many other veterans of the game. The structure I can get behind, giving out a really fantastic car to people who have completed lots of challenges, rather than making it the top 1% in a PVP Finale.

    Another point is, that the vast vast majority of events-that-matter are dry asphalt. This will only play into the hands of Slick's even more.

    Personally, I would welcome more SR and UR Slicks. Before the TCR and Trans-Am become unicorns.
  • James_PearceJames_Pearce Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’d forgotten that the Moby Dick was on slicks. I think I was too busy focussing on the sheer volume of smutty jokes that will be possible once that car has been awarded. 
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Posts: 668 admin
    There are so many issues that would be a higher priority for me than adjusting rq on slick shod cars, but I also don't imagine it's a high load task.
    Yep, nailed it. It's pretty easy to do.

    And can you explain the rq resolver in a bit more detail.  Afaik it's a static manual selection of tracks correct?  Why is it not a weighted average of the actual tracks you've used over the last 3-6 months. Would you be prepared to share the tracks that are used by the resolver?
    Blue2moro said:
    Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.

    Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
    Yes, it is a static manual selection of tracks. I originally wondered if it had too high an emphasis on drags, as it feels like there are more drag specialists emerging in Top Drives, but I now think that's just a by-product of drag specialists being more common in real life. The fact that twisty specialists also emerge from this RQ-generating system (the Beat, the MX-5 BBR Turbo) makes me think it's okay in that balance.

    We tested out removing the more extreme drags used to determine RQ (so that cars with a lower Top Speed, e.g. the DeZir, would rank higher on average), but it made barely any difference to RQs generated, so I don't think the exact distribution is too crucial to it working. I also suspect track-type biases over 3-6 months would largely average out, although I guess we could do an audit of some sort to check!

    To Blue2moro's point, that's sort-of how it works, actually! We rank each car on it's performance on Dry asphalt tracks, Wet Asphalt, and Off-road. Whichever out of those 3 it ranks highest in we consider its "primary" stat, the one it comes second in is the "secondary". We then take a weighted average of the ranks, giving most weight to the primary stat, a bit of weight to the secondary, and a tiny bit to the third.

    When it comes to playing the game, obviously in practice you pick the cars most suitable for the tracks available, and this system effectively rewards you for picking more specialist cars, which feels right. We certainly wouldn't want to remove the advantage of Slicks entirely, the question is only if the balance needs to be adjusted slightly. Since all cars have an exact rank (not just an RQ), it could be as little as bumping it up by (effectively) 0.5 of an RQ, so those at the top end of a given RQ band go up, and those at the bottom don't. (Also as noted, avoiding any changes between A and S). We could alternatively reduce the weight of the secondary stat and that would presumably have a similar effect.

    Overall though, it's seeming from this thread that people aren't too keen on a change though?

    (Also yes, as people have noted, and as I've said elsewhere, there are probably too many cars at each RQ now, so we should consider scaling the range up again, like we did in December 2017).
  • milewski1015milewski1015 Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:
    There are so many issues that would be a higher priority for me than adjusting rq on slick shod cars, but I also don't imagine it's a high load task.
    Yep, nailed it. It's pretty easy to do.

    And can you explain the rq resolver in a bit more detail.  Afaik it's a static manual selection of tracks correct?  Why is it not a weighted average of the actual tracks you've used over the last 3-6 months. Would you be prepared to share the tracks that are used by the resolver?
    Blue2moro said:
    Maybe the resolver shouldn't run every car on every track against every other car.

    Maybe once the resolver has run, maybe just eliminate factoring in the results on tracks where cars just blatantly wont be used. So only dry asphalt would be used for slicks, everything except wet asphalt for offroad, exclude bumpy streets for low cars etc. Would that represent a more accurate RQ list?
    Yes, it is a static manual selection of tracks. I originally wondered if it had too high an emphasis on drags, as it feels like there are more drag specialists emerging in Top Drives, but I now think that's just a by-product of drag specialists being more common in real life. The fact that twisty specialists also emerge from this RQ-generating system (the Beat, the MX-5 BBR Turbo) makes me think it's okay in that balance.

    We tested out removing the more extreme drags used to determine RQ (so that cars with a lower Top Speed, e.g. the DeZir, would rank higher on average), but it made barely any difference to RQs generated, so I don't think the exact distribution is too crucial to it working. I also suspect track-type biases over 3-6 months would largely average out, although I guess we could do an audit of some sort to check!

    To Blue2moro's point, that's sort-of how it works, actually! We rank each car on it's performance on Dry asphalt tracks, Wet Asphalt, and Off-road. Whichever out of those 3 it ranks highest in we consider its "primary" stat, the one it comes second in is the "secondary". We then take a weighted average of the ranks, giving most weight to the primary stat, a bit of weight to the secondary, and a tiny bit to the third.

    When it comes to playing the game, obviously in practice you pick the cars most suitable for the tracks available, and this system effectively rewards you for picking more specialist cars, which feels right. We certainly wouldn't want to remove the advantage of Slicks entirely, the question is only if the balance needs to be adjusted slightly. Since all cars have an exact rank (not just an RQ), it could be as little as bumping it up by (effectively) 0.5 of an RQ, so those at the top end of a given RQ band go up, and those at the bottom don't. (Also as noted, avoiding any changes between A and S). We could alternatively reduce the weight of the secondary stat and that would presumably have a similar effect.

    Overall though, it's seeming from this thread that people aren't too keen on a change though?

    (Also yes, as people have noted, and as I've said elsewhere, there are probably too many cars at each RQ now, so we should consider scaling the range up again, like we did in December 2017).
    Increasing the RQ range is a good idea in my opinion. As aforementioned, there are cars that are the same RQ level that have significant differences in performance. But with an RQ range increase comes the need for a higher player RQ level as well. My question is how would progression resume? It's safe to assume that a majority of players on the forum here are already RQ150. Would XP just be added to prize boards? With such an emphasis on clubs and the recent changes to the prizeboards, I'm not sure just replacing something on the board with XP would be the best idea...just my two cents anyway
  • AvengedAvenged Posts: 520 ✭✭✭✭
    And in my (potentially very controversial) opinion, that broad review should include changing the position on Prize car usage in Finals. If you’re going to let people throw money at winning by buying niche CF packs with a vastly increased drop rate for useful cars, you should allow those of us who’ve worked hard to acquire Prize cars over a long time to use those in Finals. That way we have a chance to counter the big spenders. 
    I sort of agree that prize cars should allowed to be used, because they are basically only gathering dust but that would cause more problems. It would maybe shorten the gap between "competitive" f2p players against whales but it would also increse the gap between "competitive" and non "competitive" f2p players.
    This would only further boost players that are already good enough to win prize cars "from time to time" and limit players, that are fighting for their life to win their first one.
    Big fat agree from me here. Already at a huge disadvantage not to have any S to compete with because of **** luck. Prize cars can be used in small events and dailies where they whoop major ****. It's enough until there's a better solution than "let's kill players with **** luck even harder."
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like idea of raising rq to 35.
Sign In or Register to comment.