Advocating a raised RQ limit in context

grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
As hutch have released more and more cars, things have started to get tighter particularly at the top end.

We're at the frankly pretty absurd situation where a Bugatti EB110Ss, separated from the Chiron sport by 27 years of development, 880bhp and with almost HALF the power:weight is at the same RQ.  This is to say the games classification system thinks they're of the same value.  

See also the hurucan. Surely it's a bit nuts that the "vanilla" hurucan sypder and the hurucan performante coupe are at the same RQ.

ThE bugatti is probably the most extreme imbalance I could find, but it's emblematic of a larger issue; too many cars separated by not enough RQ points.

I'm not sure that this is just an issue at rq30, but with the deluge of new legends in the PL10 (22 rq 30 Lamborghinis!!!) it's only getting worse.  

Whacking the maximum Rq Up to 40 or even 50 would give more scope to build interesting restrictions, allow the cars more to to breathe and allow more differentiation, and help out the dude who's just pulled a hurucan Spyder not feel quite so much like he's won 50pence on the lottery.

Allied to a trophy point reset (or maybe a flattening of everyone above 6000 to the same level) you would reinvigorate a game that is starting to feel pretty flat now.  

I KNOW this idea has support among a number of long term big players, but I also know I'm not a game dev.  Is there a reason why this hasn't been talked about? @Hutch_Katie , @Hutch_Tim

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Comments

  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The lambos are a great example of where the RQ limit is a problem.

    Gallardo superleggera (2) 1505kg 570bhp
    Siesto elements 990kg 570bhp

    Both rq30.  

    I know that there's more to performance than power to weight ratios, but for them both to be the same RQ is prima facie not credible, and presumably is only the case because the siesto can't be rq37.
  • Ivo_KamburovIvo_Kamburov Posts: 817 ✭✭✭✭
    Yup, please make that a dev priority for the next .0 update I guess 
  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So with current release rate we can expect a possible RQ recalc in around a year then?
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    20-100? That’s known as a “Spinal Tap” moment I believe. Why not start at 1!?  
  • 43MK443MK4 Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yup, please make that a dev priority for the next .0 update I guess 
    For context, our next planned release is already locked down for features, the update after that is nearly locked down, the update after that is planned out and designed etc. This kind of thing is unlikely to jump the queue above fully designed, planned out, scoped out, higher priority parts of the game, so it a ways down the road.

    I'll talk about this feature with the team. I'm still in the design phase of this, as we'll have to think about all the parts of the game it touches (levelling up, how offers and events are set up and work, all the testing that's involved), so it's not a simple change. I am very open to reworking RQ though, and my aim is to have a solution that we won't need to revisit or adjust in the future.

    I have discussed the feature with various members of the community. I'm pretty happy with the following structure; it offers a lot of granularity at the top end, while not feeling very disruptive.

    Common 20-29
    Uncommon 30-39
    Rare 40-49
    Super Rare 50-59
    Ultra Rare 60-69
    Epic 70-84
    Legendary 85-100
    If the current range is 3-30 why not just multiply it by 3,333 and make it 10-100.
    if u use 20 as minimum then low RQ cars will in reality be much more expensive to play than now.
    and I cant recall any complains about that balance in the game.
  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's is for the response @Hutch_Robin and @Hutch_Tim.

    I'm sure we'll have more feedback, but at a first glance I agree with @43MK4.  In the current system an rq3 car "costs" 10% of an rq30 to play.  If we move from 20-100 the lowest rq car costs 20% of the highest.

    That's a really significant difference.  Now if that's in the interests of a broader rebalancing that moves from where we're at now (play as many high ranker cars as you can) to a system that rewards more balanced hands that might be fine (it might not, IDK it's a big question), but it's something to be aware of.
  • TimButTimBut Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and always 2 mirror events. One 150rq, other 100rq :D 
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yup, please make that a dev priority for the next .0 update I guess 
    For context, our next planned release is already locked down for features, the update after that is nearly locked down, the update after that is planned out and designed etc. This kind of thing is unlikely to jump the queue above fully designed, planned out, scoped out, higher priority parts of the game, so it a ways down the road.

    I'll talk about this feature with the team. I'm still in the design phase of this, as we'll have to think about all the parts of the game it touches (levelling up, how offers and events are set up and work, all the testing that's involved), so it's not a simple change. I am very open to reworking RQ though, and my aim is to have a solution that we won't need to revisit or adjust in the future.

    I have discussed the feature with various members of the community. I'm pretty happy with the following structure; it offers a lot of granularity at the top end, while not feeling very disruptive.

    Common 20-29
    Uncommon 30-39
    Rare 40-49
    Super Rare 50-59
    Ultra Rare 60-69
    Epic 70-84
    Legendary 85-100
    Great you are agreeing this is needed.

    You have done it once before and it went quickly and smoothly iirc.
    Why not apply a “quick fix” by raising to 35 or 40, and still work on the bigger fix for the long term down the road?

    All these 30 rq cars are making the game a bit broken now, just like when we had 25 max rq and too many cars had been added.
  • gonongonon Posts: 16
    It would be good to increase the RQ to at least 35 and keep the maximum at 150 as a simple example.
    A limit to using the best S cars in a single event would be good and more competitive.

    Another thing I like is to make the event more mixed on the track set, more offroad mixed with city on asphalt, so players really need to think about the compositions. And in the requirements, for example, 2 German Renaissanse, 2 French Renaissanse and one open
  • DebulhatorDebulhator Posts: 5
    edited October 2019
    1. The RQ limit incrence is a must, the game cant go on without it;
    2. Decrease the RQ limit from event, RQ 150 is ridiculous, everyone put 4 or 5 S grade cars without use your brain to plan a team;
    3. The trophies need to change to something useful, why i ( with 4k trophys) should fight for a prize agains someone with 150k trophies, he will have 5 cars that meet the prerequisites, 5x  upgraded S grade cars.... i have 5 on my entire garage!! a 150k trophy player spend more cars to upgrade a S than i got on my entire game!!!!

    And.. not last, i have the EB110 (333) he lost on almost everything to my caterham JPE (969), and dont talk about upgrades, i need to fuse my entire A grade team to finish the bugatti
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    Yup, please make that a dev priority for the next .0 update I guess 
    For context, our next planned release is already locked down for features, the update after that is nearly locked down, the update after that is planned out and designed etc. This kind of thing is unlikely to jump the queue above fully designed, planned out, scoped out, higher priority parts of the game, so it a ways down the road.

    I'll talk about this feature with the team. I'm still in the design phase of this, as we'll have to think about all the parts of the game it touches (levelling up, how offers and events are set up and work, all the testing that's involved), so it's not a simple change. I am very open to reworking RQ though, and my aim is to have a solution that we won't need to revisit or adjust in the future.

    I have discussed the feature with various members of the community. I'm pretty happy with the following structure; it offers a lot of granularity at the top end, while not feeling very disruptive.

    Common 20-29
    Uncommon 30-39
    Rare 40-49
    Super Rare 50-59
    Ultra Rare 60-69
    Epic 70-84
    Legendary 85-100
    Great you are agreeing this is needed.

    You have done it once before and it went quickly and smoothly iirc.
    Why not apply a “quick fix” by raising to 35 or 40, and still work on the bigger fix for the long term down the road?

    All these 30 rq cars are making the game a bit broken now, just like when we had 25 max rq and too many cars had been added.
    Think that’s what Robin was getting at with his post - it can’t really be a quick fix. If you bumped it to 40 quickly, then you would have to figure out how people would level to fit 5 RQ40 cars into a max level of RQ150 - where do those extra 50 levels come from? 

    Definitely agree that an RQ increase is needed, but I’d much rather it be a well thought out solution that prepares for the addition of more cars in the future, not just a quick fix like a band-aid over a gunshot wound
    Sorry but I dont understand. Why dont we do the same thing as last time?
    Only this time rq35 max for each car / 175 maximum for a hand. Or 40 / 200.
  • AdxREAdxRE Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    I am all for increasing the RQ band to 100, if not more. Just look at the 19(!!) RQ30 Lamborghinis we have in IR.

    In addition, there should be a certain max. delta in car performance of the same RQ determined by specific tracksets to prevent the imbalance that @grandvache bought up.

    This however, can remain RQ3.

  • milewski1015milewski1015 Posts: 2,152 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TD42792 said:
    TD42792 said:
    Yup, please make that a dev priority for the next .0 update I guess 
    For context, our next planned release is already locked down for features, the update after that is nearly locked down, the update after that is planned out and designed etc. This kind of thing is unlikely to jump the queue above fully designed, planned out, scoped out, higher priority parts of the game, so it a ways down the road.

    I'll talk about this feature with the team. I'm still in the design phase of this, as we'll have to think about all the parts of the game it touches (levelling up, how offers and events are set up and work, all the testing that's involved), so it's not a simple change. I am very open to reworking RQ though, and my aim is to have a solution that we won't need to revisit or adjust in the future.

    I have discussed the feature with various members of the community. I'm pretty happy with the following structure; it offers a lot of granularity at the top end, while not feeling very disruptive.

    Common 20-29
    Uncommon 30-39
    Rare 40-49
    Super Rare 50-59
    Ultra Rare 60-69
    Epic 70-84
    Legendary 85-100
    Great you are agreeing this is needed.

    You have done it once before and it went quickly and smoothly iirc.
    Why not apply a “quick fix” by raising to 35 or 40, and still work on the bigger fix for the long term down the road?

    All these 30 rq cars are making the game a bit broken now, just like when we had 25 max rq and too many cars had been added.
    Think that’s what Robin was getting at with his post - it can’t really be a quick fix. If you bumped it to 40 quickly, then you would have to figure out how people would level to fit 5 RQ40 cars into a max level of RQ150 - where do those extra 50 levels come from? 

    Definitely agree that an RQ increase is needed, but I’d much rather it be a well thought out solution that prepares for the addition of more cars in the future, not just a quick fix like a band-aid over a gunshot wound
    Sorry but I dont understand. Why dont we do the same thing as last time?
    Only this time rq35 max for each car / 175 maximum for a hand. Or 40 / 200.
    I’m agreeing that we should do something similar - up the max RQ to 35 or 40. I just don’t think it could be done as quickly and smoothly as it was last time, as Robin alluded to. There are many more cars to deal with, the players will have to level up to the new max RQ level, etc. 

    I’d suggest that if we’re to be earning XP through prize boards as we have done in the past, return the prize board cash drops to their original values. I feel it would be unfair to have had the prize boards nerfed, and then essentially nerfed again by replacing some of the cards with XP cards
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    we will see pl 11 next year!! bye bye.... i wanna know how many players TD will lost!!
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,392 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree James, the fact that this isnt even a high priority shocked me.This is fundamental to the game, and the problem is getting more obvious with any new car added.
  • samagoichisamagoichi Posts: 853 ✭✭✭✭✭


    Going forward, I've highlighted some quality of life features for future updates including previewing event challenge sets
    @ninjadesignz  will lose his job? But on the plus side he will have more time to let his new gf making some oil change on his Moby Dick. 
  • 0171801718 Posts: 269 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2019
    I just want to say that I would not like a solution with Max RQ being 100, because it would make calculating possible car combinations much more complicated. Lets say an event has a rq Limit of 300 and 2 cars u put in your hand leave you at 157/300. Calculating that you have 143 left for 3 cars and the average rq left is like 48 is just a bit harder than doing the same maths in the current System. 
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    01718 said:
    I just want to say that I would not like a solution with Max RQ being 100, because it would make calculating possible car combinations much more complicated. Lets say an event has a rq Limit of 300 and 2 cars u put in your hand leave you at 157/300. Calculating that you have 143 left for 3 cars and the average rq left is like 48 is just a bit harder than doing the same maths in the current System. 
    Yeah now we need math from 1st grade, than you will need it from 2nd grade, that could be too much. 
  • AdxREAdxRE Posts: 214 ✭✭✭
    01718 said:
    I just want to say that I would not like a solution with Max RQ being 100, because it would make calculating possible car combinations much more complicated. Lets say an event has a rq Limit of 300 and 2 cars u put in your hand leave you at 157/300. Calculating that you have 143 left for 3 cars and the average rq left is like 48 is just a bit harder than doing the same maths in the current System. 
    Isn’t that a great thing? That would mean many more possible combination of hands that would meet the RQ limit and more useable/useful cars.
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The feature is increasing in priority. It'll be a part of a discussion for the next update that we plan. By then, we will have a design and knowledge of the risks and can scope out the feature. I do not expect this to be a cure-all though.

    Priorities above this have been things like improvements to the match resolver, tools to run Owners' Challenges as an alternative to Owners' Finals, and the initial changes to Club Events that I've advocated in that thread.

    Going forward, I've highlighted some quality of life features for future updates including previewing event challenge sets, applying filters to all cars in the game. If the feeling is that strong that the solution we have is likely to improve the game in a measurable way, and the team assess it as a manageable change that is lowish risk, we can look at bumping some of these features in favour of this.

    With the lack of complaints regarding how the RQ band increasing from 25 > 30 I think a proportionate raise is lower risk than going to a new ratio of 20-100. Going from 3-30 to 10-100 seems logical then.

    I think you guys are onboard too, but this is something that really does need to be bumped up the priority order above say, including filters for every single car. That is an inconvenience whereas this is a flaw in the game as it currently exists. Curable though, so let's do it to maximise the game's potential! 
  • mauro07mauro07 Posts: 2,636 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right, so another thing I think would be helpful, especially in Club Events, is an autofill hand button to fill up your hand with a valid selection of cars, or at least fill in your remaining slot with the obvious max RQ upgraded pick from your garage. That becomes more important when the maths is more difficult. So now we're potentially considering a second feature to push at the same time.

    My big press is to continue to open up the game to new users more effectively, mechanics that make TD less intimidating and easier to get into and play are worth trying for that reason, and autofill is one of those. It potentially solves two issues - those are the best kinds of features. Efficiency is very persuasive.
    new players as old players need a better table prize and better rewards (daily login and daily event and clubs)
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Right, so another thing I think would be helpful, especially in Club Events, is an autofill hand button to fill up your hand with a valid selection of cars, or at least fill in your remaining slot with the obvious max RQ upgraded pick from your garage. That becomes more important when the maths is more difficult. So now we're potentially considering a second feature to push at the same time.

    My big press is to continue to open up the game to new users more effectively, mechanics that make TD less intimidating and easier to get into and play are worth trying for that reason, and autofill is one of those. It potentially solves two issues - those are the best kinds of features. Efficiency is very persuasive.
    One thing that would really, really be helpful is an indication of average rq next to the max rq for each event, especially for clubs.
    Clubs is so casual it is a pain to calculate where the barycentre is for each event, when you want to just quickly decide on a half appropriate hand.

    So for example if an event is 120 max rq, just indicate it is 24 average rq. For a 62 rq event, indicate average is 12.4 rq, etc.
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