RQ evaluation rework

No i'm not talking about rescaling rq, that's something for another day. And although I'm glad that's coming, there's a ton of rq related issues that won't be fixed.

So let's start with a few examples:
1: Peugeot 3008 DKR, Ariel Nomad, Jaguar F-type Rally car, Lancia stratos HF Group 4.
Now all of these will be used in offroad cenarios since they are all rally cars, that's simply their purpose. Want to know how much of these actually beats either the 924 or the rally escort? Practically none. The lancia stratos might just barely beat the escort in snow or sand (not even all tracks then). And the ariel nomad might win slalom on gravel, and maybe even dirt (damn two tracks, must be worth 2 more rq then). But besides these rare occurences none of the epic rally cars actually deserve to their rq. The dakar shouldn't be higher than 22rq, the nomad might just barely make it to 23rq, the ftype should be 22 and so should the stratos. 
Why are these rally cars higher rq? Well let me tell you, it's because they have one of the following advantages: they perform better onroad occasionally (besides nomad none actually really do), they uhhmm... yeah that's it. Just because of this silly reason rally cars are put into higher rqs. The only reason you could max one without making a fool of yourself is when they receive a finals with specific requirements (which is equally true for every rally car so no proper reason still).
Rq change proposal:
Peugeot 3008 DKR 25>22rq
Ariel Nomad 24>23rq
Jaguar F-type rally car 23>22rq
Lancia Stratos HF Group 4 23>22rq

2: Vauxhall Firenza Old Nail, Fiat x 1/9 dallara, Renault Clio Cup car, Jaguar XJ-S Trans-AM, Renault R21 Europa cup, Fiat Abarth 1000TC Berlina Corsa.
I would simply like to ask the following question: If a car has worse tyres and worse performance should it be the same rq? Any well-minded person would say no to this question, yet here we are. The vauxhall for example has less than 3 cars that are somewhat worse at the same rq (out of 25!) and on top of that it has worse tyres, making it absolutely worthless (competitively). Next up the Fiat, basically the same story, lots of cars that are better despite also having better tyres (and same rq obviously). I could tell you the same story with the other 4 but I think you get the gist of it.
Rq change proposal:
Vauxhall Firenza Old Nail 20>18rq
Fiat x 1/9 dallara 23>22rq
Renault Clio Cup car 18>17rq
Jaguar XJ-S Trans-AM 17>16rq
Renault R21 Europa cup17>16rq
Fiat Abarth 1000TC Berlina Corsa 15>14rq

3: Bentley Continental Supersports convertible, Bentley continental GT Speed coupe, Bentley TSPBCGT, 911 Targa 4s, Diablo VT Roadster and so on. What do these cars have in common? 4wd and top speed. Now where would you use a car with 4wd if you could choose between rainy twisty road, 1 mile drag and test bowl? Unless this is your first day playing this should be fairly obvious, a 4wd car performs better in rain and putting it on dry would be a waste of rq. So what happens when cars with 4wd have a high top speed? They become useless because when their rq is calculated they are put on test bowl and unsurprisingly beat cars with lower top speeds. Resulting in them being put in higher rq's among cars with actually good stats for a 4wd car. Unless we are talking about 30rq (at which point everything gets mixed), the optimal setup for a 4wd performance car is:
Top speed: Low
0-60: average
handling: high 
MRA: Low 
A good example of this would be the chevrolet Miray, which outperforms most 4wd performance cars unless put on a dragstrip (which again you'd have to be quite unfamiliar with the game to do such a thing). Now I don't have a proposal for rq changes in this examples because there are simply so much cars to consider and to list them would take far too long.

I could have given a few more examples but I think you'll get my point by now, cars should be rated on their performance in the scenarios in which they'll actually be used and not just in general. Also certain tyre types and drive trains should have a standard rq deduction/increase to simplify and improve the rq rating system, for example slicks should be 1 rq lower than performance tyres in case of exact same performance and all-surface should be 1 rq higher. 

Hope hutch will consider reworking this in order to make the playing field more competitive and give these odd ones out a chance to shine :smile:







Comments

  • evilprofesseurevilprofesseur Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this doesn't address the actual underlying problem, which is how the resolver ranks specialized cars. this is what the change should focus on, to prevent such things happening in the future. the track selection these days is different than it used to be too - and I assume this is not taken into account either?
  • ThatPorscheGuyThatPorscheGuy Posts: 358 ✭✭✭
    this doesn't address the actual underlying problem, which is how the resolver ranks specialized cars. this is what the change should focus on, to prevent such things happening in the future. the track selection these days is different than it used to be too - and I assume this is not taken into account either?
    Yeah that's what I'm trying to point out that the resolver just is bad.
  • GT47LMGT47LM Posts: 416 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22
    I've pointed this problem out several times before but they never seem to get much traction, so hopefully yours does!

    I think the main issue has to do with all the bugs in the physics engine, all the weight problems, hidden values in the cars, etc. that when changed, it'll throw the whole RQ debacle into the forefront again because now all cars will handle differently once (if ever) the issues that have plagued the game since its inception are finally fixed. Once we get to the root of the problem and don't have these broken results, THEN we can fix the also broken RQ rating system.

    Once the RQ rework comes in, it'll give Hutch a little more room to adjust the RQ rating, but considering how bad it is with some cars at the moment and the generalization of the ever slowly increasing RQ of every car in the game with the limit staying capped at 30 RQ, I have very low hopes. I believe the difference between the top RQ 30 cars and the worst performing RQ 30 cars (as well as the best performing RQ 29 cars) are such a monumental difference that we are going to unfortunately be seeing the same thing once the rework comes out. 
  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 702 ✭✭✭✭
    You're proposing changes to cars you haven't even seen in action? Let alone own and can compare like for like. That's not the way to do it.

    Even some of your non-prize changes are questionable. The X1/9 is pretty strong and I suspect it well deserves a place at RQ23. I've never compared it time-wise to RQ22 cars at the same tune, but I do have one at 333 if you want to do that. Generally it's strength is the very low weight so it's good at tracks where you spend lots of time going around corners such as g-force.

    But yeah, the issues with uncomplimentary characteristics raising RQ is a real one. There are other factors involved though.

    For example, there are a lot more legendaries that are fast at high speed. So if you're going to use an RQ28 car and an RQ17 car it generally works out better for the RQ17 car to go on the slower tracks and the RQ28 car to go on the fast tracks.

    And the current trend of ridiculously high RQ limits that hardly anyone in an event is coming up against, means that it's rare to get an opportunity to use low RQ cars alone.

    So RQ17 cars that are good at faster tracks compared to other RQ17 cars, such as the XJ-R Trans Am don't see much use. 
  • ThatPorscheGuyThatPorscheGuy Posts: 358 ✭✭✭
    You're proposing changes to cars you haven't even seen in action? Let alone own and can compare like for like. That's not the way to do it.

    Even some of your non-prize changes are questionable. The X1/9 is pretty strong and I suspect it well deserves a place at RQ23. I've never compared it time-wise to RQ22 cars at the same tune, but I do have one at 333 if you want to do that. Generally it's strength is the very low weight so it's good at tracks where you spend lots of time going around corners such as g-force.

    But yeah, the issues with uncomplimentary characteristics raising RQ is a real one. There are other factors involved though.

    For example, there are a lot more legendaries that are fast at high speed. So if you're going to use an RQ28 car and an RQ17 car it generally works out better for the RQ17 car to go on the slower tracks and the RQ28 car to go on the fast tracks.

    And the current trend of ridiculously high RQ limits that hardly anyone in an event is coming up against, means that it's rare to get an opportunity to use low RQ cars alone.

    So RQ17 cars that are good at faster tracks compared to other RQ17 cars, such as the XJ-R Trans Am don't see much use. 
    I'm pretty familiar with the game and can tell you that most of my statements in this post are correct, as far as in game performance goes.
  • TopDivesTopDives Posts: 693 ✭✭✭✭
    You're proposing changes to cars you haven't even seen in action? Let alone own and can compare like for like. That's not the way to do it.

    Even some of your non-prize changes are questionable. The X1/9 is pretty strong and I suspect it well deserves a place at RQ23. I've never compared it time-wise to RQ22 cars at the same tune, but I do have one at 333 if you want to do that. Generally it's strength is the very low weight so it's good at tracks where you spend lots of time going around corners such as g-force.

    But yeah, the issues with uncomplimentary characteristics raising RQ is a real one. There are other factors involved though.

    For example, there are a lot more legendaries that are fast at high speed. So if you're going to use an RQ28 car and an RQ17 car it generally works out better for the RQ17 car to go on the slower tracks and the RQ28 car to go on the fast tracks.

    And the current trend of ridiculously high RQ limits that hardly anyone in an event is coming up against, means that it's rare to get an opportunity to use low RQ cars alone.

    So RQ17 cars that are good at faster tracks compared to other RQ17 cars, such as the XJ-R Trans Am don't see much use. 
    I'm pretty familiar with the game and can tell you that most of my statements in this post are correct, as far as in game performance goes.
    I mostly agree with your most correct statements in most of this post.
  • 0171801718 Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    Isnt the proposal here that the RQ resolver should simply

    1. be weighting car's strong suit even more than it does now
    2. should discriminate between surface conditions and track characteristics (e.g. drag, twisty, city)

    ?
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In this proposal, would it move a specialist car like the El Camino up or down in RQ?  If it goes up, it's usefulness could diminish.
  • 0171801718 Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    Well I just tried to 'condensate' the ideas stated in this thread. Maybe I got it wrong, so I would not want to call it 'my' proposal.

    Yes, I suppose it would reduce the El Camino usefulness by getting it a higher RQ. But this is kind of what you want if you try to make the game more balanced. 

    Personally I am completely fine with the current resolver. To me, the 3008 DKR is a niche car. It might struggle against other off the road but will outperforms them on asphalt, I guess. Hence you can use it in an event with varying need for off road cars (also I have not yet seen a full comparison of the 3008 and the escort... People tend to emphasize it's uselessness, of course). 


    Post edited by 01718 on
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, if I understand the suggestion correctly, we would lose niche cars.  Not a fan of that.
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