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PL12: European Revolution Patch Notes Discussion

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  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 904 ✭✭✭✭
    If car correction for higher RQ car is choosed as bad move, why then correct same manufacturer/type car in lower RQ and buff it. No change at all and there would be less negativity, no?
  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RobGripes said:
    Please, please, please. NO Merc or German offroad events that go towards a CF or a prize car PLEASE! We can't have a messed up hierarchy that affects important events.

    Let's save those for after the hierarchy is fixed. The GL63S already has incorrect acceleration times and now the handling is not a match for a lesser model.
    Sorry, but no, we're not doing that. We've made 400+ corrections. This means that more cars are closer to reality than they were before. We can't take multiple steps forward in accuracy only for the reaction to be 'well don't run certain events until the rest of the cars of that type change'. If that's the case, making corrections hurts our ability to run events... and is an argument in favour of not making changes at all.

    I'm happy to make corrections, while balancing that against the disruptive nature of changes. There are some disruptive changes in this update - but relatively speaking, things are less severe than they could have been. I agree that we want a logical heirarchy - that concern is valid. I'm happy to embrace that as a goal of this process. I also agree that we don't want cars flipping rarities at high levels. This is what the community has been relatively in agreement. It's too disruptive. You'll notice there's a big lack of that compared in previous releases. These two ideas mean there are conflicts, where we want to change a car, but where it's too disruptive to do so.

    Here's a rough order of priorities: the game running as normal > stability in rarity > accuracy > hierarchy. An off hierarchy is not the tail that gets to wag the dog of the events we run.

    There's a thread discussing options elsewhere on the forum. The best idea is replicating what we did in the past with the Dodge Durango SRT (2018): replacing name and photo to a car the stats more closely resemble. The only reason we have not pursued this more frequently is because of the level of work involved. However, as we have fewer other corrections left, and as we have a number of cases that meet this criteria, it's of higher salience and we can probably batch the work together to make it more efficient. I'm happy to increase the priority on this to solve issues where corrections haven't been made because they are too disruptive, to ensure that more cars in-game match a car in real life without shifting the rarity of very rare cars players currently own.
    Sure that makes sense. Do you understand though we are talking about 2 cars, same model, just different years/generations, with older model getting 76 handling while newer model stays at 71?
    For off road cars this means the older ML63 will beat the newer GLE63S on ALL tracks but drags.

    These are the two best Merc off road cars, if the change is applied the way it is currently proposed, merc or german off road events will be seriously silly. Please tell us you understand this.
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 940 admin
    REALAIS said:
    If car correction for higher RQ car is choosed as bad move, why then correct same manufacturer/type car in lower RQ and buff it. No change at all and there would be less negativity, no?
    You can deduce the answer from my post. I regard accuracy of more models (really, this is the hierarchy of all TD cars) as more important than relative hierarchy within a specific manufacturer.

    You're right though - we could have corrected fewer cars and got less negativity. I'm not trying to do that. I'm not optimising for less negativity. The argument is authenticity is desirable and worth aiming for, so I'm optimising for the most corrections we can make, that don't pass the disruption threshold (rarity changes starting or ending in A or S class).
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 940 admin
    edited August 15
    TD42792 said:
    Sure that makes sense. Do you understand though we are talking about 2 cars, same model, just different years/generations, with older model getting 76 handling while newer model stays at 71?
    For off road cars this means the older ML63 will beat the newer GLE63S on ALL tracks but drags.

    These are the two best Merc off road cars, if the change is applied the way it is currently proposed, merc or german off road events will be seriously silly. Please tell us you understand this.
    Yeah. Ideally, hierarchy would be honoured. It does make things weird for those events, and that might give an odd feeling of 'this is stupid' when playing. We don't want that. This is often the source of 'you made old cars worse just to introduce new better cars'. That's not our intent, but it's a consequence of ensuring the hierarchy is correct. Hierarchy gets a microscope on when examining those newer models. So hierarchy has been a priority - it's just not the top priority in a scenario like this one.

    I think disruption is worse. Lots of situations don't have a neat solution, this is one of them. If the changes weren't disruptive, I'd have signed off on all corrections. Until then, I'd still rather more models be corrected, with an incorrect hierarchy.

    I get the argument that as new Mercedes aren't being introduced, we could have kept the hierarchy intact and made fewer corrections. That's a fine, reasonable argument. It's just a judgement call that I have rated number of corrections as more important than the hierarchy.

    In many cases, if we were introducing a newer Mercedes as part of the hierarchy, the hierarchy would be imperfect whatever we chose, as the newest car would certainly be much better than the second car (correct order, but the magnitude of difference would quite odd as the newest car would be correct, but the GLE63S would be worse, or all the cars of that range would be worse), the majority of scenarios will follow this in future, adding to my desire that number of corrections is the better of two imperfect choices.
  • REALAISREALAIS Posts: 904 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15
    But now I will be suffering from that more. As casual player and having maxed GLE63S, and next best for me is MB G55. I am bottom tier player, and now my "cool" car gets even worse in non drags races.
    That will be my reality in future. Yes, yes, adapt and move on.
  • AntounAntoun Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Robin Maybe you can avoid events where the ML63 could shine against GLE63 S until next update. Seems pretty fair to me...
  • OCTheEagleOCTheEagle Posts: 11
    So, when is this 12.0 update going live?
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, when is this 12.0 update going live?
    From Monday
  • NicooooooNicoooooo Posts: 34
    It hurts to learn that I've finished to max the boss 302 yesterday will become low. Same for the recently maxed mito gta and 440i :'(:/ The one that shocks me is the a45 though
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    edited August 15
    So the handling of the Z4 drive being not corrected, the MRA of the Opel GT and and the tyres of the Manta rally were not corrected because too disruptive?

    But I already feel like this is more accurate!

    Some cars will feel like the Dodge Stealh thought, when the car was still a F but got the correction^^

    EDIT : with the Abarth going down,same for the 407, what will happen inside the Yellowbird Campaign?
  • RobGripesRobGripes Posts: 2,535 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've just tested a 333 tune gle63S on 0-100. Runs at 9.65.

    It seems the ML63 is going to win the drags too...
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AslanV said:
    the tyres of the Manta rally were not corrected  
    Do you have a post where this was stated as being noted?
  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 824 ✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of hierarchies I'm surprised to see the 640d 2016 hasn't been brought in line with the GR 6-series models this patch. The changes don't seem like they'd be particularly disruptive or likely to result in rarity changes. It's just a minor revision to the 2011 model which is currently sitting in the middle of ultra rare so it's not going to go far with corrected values. 

    Has this fallen through the cracks of the correction list?


    The corrections list states the LM002 body-type is being changed to 'truck' which isn't currently used by anything else or listed in the filters. I'm guessing that's supposed to be pick-up? Also, we've got some KTM X-box models and a Judge Ram Ait featured on the corrections list.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15
    The corrections list states the LM002 body-type is being changed to 'truck' which isn't currently used by anything else or listed in the filters. I'm guessing that's supposed to be pick-up?
    @Hutch_Robin - Can you confirm that this was changed to 'pickup' and not 'truck'.  I'm assuming you didn't create a new body type just for this.  @Hutch_Dmitri - Once Robin acknowledges this, could you change the note to 'Pickup'?

    Also, we've got some KTM X-box models and a Judge Ram Ait featured on the corrections list.
    I'll take the blame for this.  I fixed the other two X-Boxes, but didn't catch this one.  I also didn't notice the Ait.  @Hutch_Dmitri, can you fix these spelling errors?
  • hajduk_fanhajduk_fan Posts: 423 ✭✭✭
    Btw for people who maybe didn't notice, Jaguar CX75 will now have 150 MRA.

    3.3 0-60 and 5.5 0-100
  • UncleGaryUncleGary Posts: 222 ✭✭✭
    The whole ride height shambles needs reassessed badly, it’s ridiculous that town cars like the BMW’s and now Boss mustang are low. 
    The Abarths? Next to a Skoda Octavia..... about an inch in difference. 🤷🏻‍♂️


    Low height needs to be for the super cars, not everyday hatchbacks etc. 
    I wish ride height would just be numerical values instead of forced categories like medium and low. Why not have the game calculate the amount of speed penalty over bumps. That would be more accurate and interesting as well. SUVs should glide almost effortlessly over speed bumps compared to a normal (currently "medium") sedan, lower cars still would struggle to different degrees to get over the bumps, and some cars even fail to finish. Simply having zero penalty to any "medium" or "high" car over bumps isn't realistic at all.
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    edited August 15
    HeissRod said:
    AslanV said:
    the tyres of the Manta rally were not corrected  
    Do you have a post where this was stated as being noted?
    Honestly don't recall, would have made sense with the others 80's cars.

    Even, there still a lot of topic missing the Correction noted, so I figured it may came later. (As I said glad with the change ! I keep in mind the people helping hutch on the correction are doing their best for free)

    I am not complaining, just asking if the biggest change have been put aside to avoid big rarity change.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wow.....no mention yet of the Metro 6R4?
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    Wow.....no mention yet of the Metro 6R4?
    Saw it, either it is a last minute add (as the topic is quite new) or it was already noted somewhere.

    But if closer to reality I don't want to complain
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    edited August 16
    Forgot to ask, what is an Hidden tag ?

    "A new hidden tag is making its way to Top Drives to ensure we can run more events with our new and old Rest of the World cars!"



    Post edited by AslanV on
  • GymopenGymopen Posts: 122 ✭✭✭
    AslanV said:
    Forgot to ask, what is an Hidden tag ?

    "A new hidden tag is making its way to Top Drives to ensure we can run more events with our new and old Rest of the World cars!"



    Note that "Rest of the World" is capitalized. Maybe the next challenge tag with cars before all the Renaissance update? 
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    So I reviewed a little bit more deeper the content,

    Why lowering the handling of the Dodge Charger SRT and Daytona ?

    Smart move for the ranger, with the move to RWD

    Why the civic 1.8 move to saloon ? The hatcback was fine.

    [email protected] with the new MRA of the Honda Pilot 2016, it may become the best hill climber of japan, no ? (As it was already kind of close of the Nismo)

    The freelancer 2 with the bump in handling will have 1 point more than the RQ39 freelander. The 2 will definitely be a : to watch

    Oops for the RX3 !

    Surprising how the Skyline GTR R34 will be medium and not the two previous !

    The Porsche 959 going medium is interesting

    Overall, I am exited!
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 391 ✭✭✭
    So the X-Bow RR is gonna be 158/3.1/103 maxed 233, with 115 MRA. The W12 Roadster is gonna get 127 MRA but both stay Epic. Interesting. 
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 391 ✭✭✭
    edited August 16
    Also iirc the Yellowbird is supposed to have 119 MRA, and was noted for its MRA to be bumped. However it's 0-150 time of 14.6 seconds is a bit odd as it's a full second slower than a R390 (with similar 0-60 to what the Yellowbird will get)
    Did Hutch nerf the MRA of the Yellowbird instead? 
    *Note the 1.3/1.3/1.3 R390 shown has around 112 MRA 
  • AslanVAslanV Posts: 826 ✭✭✭
    JaguarDTM said:
    So the X-Bow RR is gonna be 158/3.1/103 maxed 233, with 115 MRA. The W12 Roadster is gonna get 127 MRA but both stay Epic. Interesting. 
    The W12 is supposedly already corrected :)

    the Xbow May beats the R500 ?
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    JaguarDTM said:
    Also iirc the Yellowbird is supposed to have 119 MRA, and was noted for its MRA to be bumped. However it's 0-150 time of 14.6 seconds is a bit odd as it's a full second slower than a R390 (with similar 0-60 to what the Yellowbird will get)
    Did Hutch nerf the MRA of the Yellowbird instead? 
    *Note the 1.3/1.3/1.3 R390 shown has around 112 MRA 
    https://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/173811/#Comment_173811
  • Db314Db314 Posts: 3
    Out of curiosity, what are the parameters for ground clearance? There seem to be a lot of inconsistencies, i.e. a car with higher ground clearance will be set as "low" while a car with lower clearance will be considered "medium".
  • JaguarDTMJaguarDTM Posts: 391 ✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    JaguarDTM said:
    Also iirc the Yellowbird is supposed to have 119 MRA, and was noted for its MRA to be bumped. However it's 0-150 time of 14.6 seconds is a bit odd as it's a full second slower than a R390 (with similar 0-60 to what the Yellowbird will get)
    Did Hutch nerf the MRA of the Yellowbird instead? 
    *Note the 1.3/1.3/1.3 R390 shown has around 112 MRA 
    https://forums.hutchgames.com/discussion/comment/173811/#Comment_173811
    So the 0-100 time should be 6.7 seconds. But I have a feeling it's lower than that considering it's 0-150 time. Odd that Hutch decided to use its 0-150 time instead of just 0-100 time to correct it. 
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