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Overfilling brackets

AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
I like to discuss the bracket status, as some of you may have noticed Hutch tweaked their bracket system, running more open ones over the weekend, and stopping to create new ones too early. This leads to MASSIVE overfill and a really unfair situation.
Its one of the most frustrating things in the game if you fight for three days, know the hands of your opponents and did your fuses accordingly, but if some whalehands latejoin in the last hours, all can be gone fast.

With less tham 1000 gold, far less than just a single CF, you can easily spam your way into t1 in any bracket, doesnt matter how old it is. Means... the current method has closed the latejoin door for weak hands, but leaves it wide open for any strong hands. Frustrating players that invested over three days to hold their position.

We either need dynamic prizetiers that adjust, or another method, like the good old often propsed "close all brackets t-3h", who hasnt joined then, bad luck, be earlier next time) . I think this would be more effective and fairer to all the players.
Hutch argumentation is, that they dont want to close brackets as they want the game to be accessible at all times... making it unfair to EVERY other player in the process. I think after a very short time of brackets closing early, ppl will learn and no longer try to latejoin at all. There is 3 days time prior to do so, so the point of"having no time" doesnt count here, or if.. you dont deserve the prizecar anyway.






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Comments

  • grandvachegrandvache Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's an objectively bad solution to a problem.  Disqualify late entrants from winning the top prize, or close the event to be entrants before the event ends, or one of the many other better solutions that were proposed by the community.  

    Your users predicted this problem, and lo it has come to pass.  


  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Imo this is also false advertising. Representation of chances to win prizes is better than actual prizes awarded.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18
    If the cut off is 3 hours before the end, won’t those “whale hands” just join then and take the top positions anyways, without having spent the extra gold on tickets?

    I’m all for expanding the prize levels, if you expand the entrants, though.
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    If the cut off is 3 hours before the end, won’t those “whale hands” just join then and take the top positions anyways, without having spent the extra gold on tickets?

    I’m all for expanding the prize levels, if you expand the entrants, though.
    Yeah but they won't join an already full bracket and that's quite a difference. The problem is overfilling.
    My proposal is still the same as before:
    Stop creating new brackets, say T-3 hours. After that put out a warning message that entry is still allowed but only until there are open brackets. So joining in the last 3 hours will be risky, you either join in time, or take the risk of missing the event.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    If the cut off is 3 hours before the end, won’t those “whale hands” just join then and take the top positions anyways, without having spent the extra gold on tickets?

    I’m all for expanding the prize levels, if you expand the entrants, though.
    Yes. the best hands can always rise to the top. But thats not the point, but the fact that as of now they get dropped into 3 day old brackets and shake up the bracket, making players who spend money and time on the event, loose their spots. If a bracket is full, it should remain closed, the current solution feels so rigged and is unfair, peope set up their hand according to their competition, thats one of the reasons to join early, . Dont forget, this is no free game, but a game where you HAVE to spend if you like to stay on top, not even the most dedicated f2p win all the prizecars.So there must be clear rules and not this weird overfill now.
    If iwith a 3 hour cutoff suddenly all whales join at that time, be sure this will change fast after some events. Players always look for an edge and the best chance for T1. Atm its enough if you join an hour before the end, spend less gold than 1 CF costs and kick someones nuts with a strong hand.

  • RuvlaRuvla Posts: 156 ✭✭✭
     kick someones nuts with a strong hand.

    I would say, that strong hand can only be kicked with stronger hand.
    So eventually it is not so strong.
  • LittleEnosBurdetteLittleEnosBurdette Posts: 3,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 3 hour cut off is favourable to the system we have now for sure but I still say the best way is the need for you to play “X” amount of tickets to claim the prize tier. It’s already set up in clubs so a transition to main events “should” be easy enough to do. 



  • Blue2moroBlue2moro Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd go further and have suggested in the past having pre-registration. It's a drastic measure but maybe just implement it for critical events to start off with. Like Tri Series or CF events etc. You want a chance at this car then register in this 24/48 hr window. Once registration is closed the brackets get created with all players distributed amongst them. No late joining and you'll mostly understand from the start where you stand in the bracket. Of course people can still get lucky pulls and be working on their fuses but it seems a much fairer option than the current situation.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    sorry to the player that lost t2 and their ceramic pack.

  • EndlessWavesEndlessWaves Posts: 824 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm not convinced this has much to do with the new late join mechanism, there were complaints about weaker hands being unable to maintain there place in the closing minutes even under the old system.

    How much of it is late joiners at all? A lot of people just don't bother to play many tickets in the middle of the event and rise up at the end. Scroll down the order a day or two in but before new brackets stop opening and you'll see plenty of #-0 hands with no losses that could easily surge to 8-0 in the last few minutes. 

    We can certainly see the total player count rise towards the end, but how many of them are casual players or tier 5 hands hoping to get tier 3 or tier 4 by not getting too many negative points from losses?


    Even assuming those players had joined earlier then what? People would end up at the pretty much same places they do right now, other than the adjustment for bracket size. 

    And there's a simple fix for that aspect of it, just set the initial bracket size cap to 450-ish instead of 500 and you get back to the same average bracket size as before.

  • lemmings99olemmings99o Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    I really don’t think they care. People are still pumping money in despite this unfair overfill, plus all the glaring bugs, so they’re concentrating on new money making ideas like tuner parts instead. 

    I’d be so embarrassed at work if I implemented something where brackets of 100 ended up with 150+ in them 😂 Considering people pay money to play a game where X% of players are supposed to win the top prize, I’m not sure it’s even legal. I’m certain it’s not ethical 
    Legal? Not sure, Ethical? Definitely not. But then lately it seems more and more like the forumers opinions matter less to hutch, I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later they got rid of it and just used the in game forum 🤮. There's a lot less interaction lately from hutch on here "can't find any comments on anything from anyone from hutch in the last 5 days". And I feel as if the players gaming experience has dropped down their list of priorities, "someone posted a conversation with support I believe saying that any current bug including the screen overlays people are still getting will have to wait to be fixed till the next major update". To me that implies a lack of care of players experience and an unwillingness to spend either the time or money to rectify the problem as long as it doesn't significantly impact revenue generation. It's the same with this issue where in until it starts to cost them seriously income they don't really care. As a player who's played over 1100 days, almost from the start I'd attest to the fact that the game feels a lot more like a money grab than it used to, but their target audience now is probably players who will come in, dump a load of money in early and then either continue to spend and don't know what the game was like before the current quality of life issues, or  they'll just leave to be replaced by more new players who'll dump money into the game.

    TL:DR, hutch doesn't care about the bugs or fairness unless it significantly effects their revenue stream.

    Standing by for this to either get edited or deleted by mods or to get banned.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    I really don’t think they care. People are still pumping money in despite this unfair overfill, plus all the glaring bugs, so they’re concentrating on new money making ideas like tuner parts instead. 

    I’d be so embarrassed at work if I implemented something where brackets of 100 ended up with 150+ in them 😂 Considering people pay money to play a game where X% of players are supposed to win the top prize, I’m not sure it’s even legal. I’m certain it’s not ethical 
    Legal? Not sure, Ethical? Definitely not. But then lately it seems more and more like the forumers opinions matter less to hutch, I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later they got rid of it and just used the in game forum 🤮. There's a lot less interaction lately from hutch on here "can't find any comments on anything from anyone from hutch in the last 5 days". And I feel as if the players gaming experience has dropped down their list of priorities, "someone posted a conversation with support I believe saying that any current bug including the screen overlays people are still getting will have to wait to be fixed till the next major update". To me that implies a lack of care of players experience and an unwillingness to spend either the time or money to rectify the problem as long as it doesn't significantly impact revenue generation. It's the same with this issue where in until it starts to cost them seriously income they don't really care. As a player who's played over 1100 days, almost from the start I'd attest to the fact that the game feels a lot more like a money grab than it used to, but their target audience now is probably players who will come in, dump a load of money in early and then either continue to spend and don't know what the game was like before the current quality of life issues, or  they'll just leave to be replaced by more new players who'll dump money into the game.

    TL:DR, hutch doesn't care about the bugs or fairness unless it significantly effects their revenue stream.

    Standing by for this to either get edited or deleted by mods or to get banned.

    I agree with you both and would be interested to hear someone from Hutch on the topic.
    @Hutch_Dmitri are you still reading on here?
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BoxtaS said:
    I really don’t think they care. People are still pumping money in despite this unfair overfill, plus all the glaring bugs, so they’re concentrating on new money making ideas like tuner parts instead. 

    I’d be so embarrassed at work if I implemented something where brackets of 100 ended up with 150+ in them 😂 Considering people pay money to play a game where X% of players are supposed to win the top prize, I’m not sure it’s even legal. I’m certain it’s not ethical 
    Legal? Not sure, Ethical? Definitely not. But then lately it seems more and more like the forumers opinions matter less to hutch, I wouldn't be surprised if sooner or later they got rid of it and just used the in game forum 🤮. There's a lot less interaction lately from hutch on here "can't find any comments on anything from anyone from hutch in the last 5 days". And I feel as if the players gaming experience has dropped down their list of priorities, "someone posted a conversation with support I believe saying that any current bug including the screen overlays people are still getting will have to wait to be fixed till the next major update". To me that implies a lack of care of players experience and an unwillingness to spend either the time or money to rectify the problem as long as it doesn't significantly impact revenue generation. It's the same with this issue where in until it starts to cost them seriously income they don't really care. As a player who's played over 1100 days, almost from the start I'd attest to the fact that the game feels a lot more like a money grab than it used to, but their target audience now is probably players who will come in, dump a load of money in early and then either continue to spend and don't know what the game was like before the current quality of life issues, or  they'll just leave to be replaced by more new players who'll dump money into the game.

    TL:DR, hutch doesn't care about the bugs or fairness unless it significantly effects their revenue stream.

    Standing by for this to either get edited or deleted by mods or to get banned.

    I agree with you both and would be interested to hear someone from Hutch on the topic.
    @Hutch_Dmitri are you still reading on here?
    Ah yes, the "community manager" that hasn't posted in 2 weeks lol
  • TopDivesTopDives Posts: 756 ✭✭✭✭
    You think Dmitri is still around? He had the same fate as Kate i think. 
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hutch abandoned their own forum, they post now only at random kids discord.
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TopDives said:
    You think Dmitri is still around? He had the same fate as Kate i think. 
    He was online yesterday so still exists, just a lack of engagement from hutch in general.
  • Hutch_GsearchHutch_Gsearch Posts: 2,595 admin
    @BoxtaS  Now that was funny.

    I know that this is being discussed, but that is all I can offer. 
  • Hutch_GsearchHutch_Gsearch Posts: 2,595 admin
    Being constructive, what in your opinion is the best way to address the late join issue?    Please take into consideration that the primary issue with late joining is that players were waiting until the last moment to join so that they would get a brand new empty bracket and get top prizes without upgrading a car or racing more than a few races.  I agree that anything more than 10-15% seems too much, but what would be a reasonable and fair alternative?  
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30
    Edited , continue below, nothing to see here
    Post edited by AndreasSimmer on
  • OzzmanOzzman Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Being constructive, what in your opinion is the best way to address the late join issue?    Please take into consideration that the primary issue with late joining is that players were waiting until the last moment to join so that they would get a brand new empty bracket and get top prizes without upgrading a car or racing more than a few races.  I agree that anything more than 10-15% seems too much, but what would be a reasonable and fair alternative?  
    There are suggestions in this thread and there were plenty of others before in threads long forgotten. As far as I remember there wasn't much feedback from Hutch on this issue so far. All we have are unfair, ridiculously overfilling brackets. What else can the community do?
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Being constructive, what in your opinion is the best way to address the late join issue?    Please take into consideration that the primary issue with late joining is that players were waiting until the last moment to join so that they would get a brand new empty bracket and get top prizes without upgrading a car or racing more than a few races.  I agree that anything more than 10-15% seems too much, but what would be a reasonable and fair alternative?  
    If you keep the overfilling, then have the prize brackets increase in proportion to the overfilling amount.
  • AndreasSimmerAndreasSimmer Posts: 1,927 ✭✭✭✭✭
    greddy said:
    Really? Asking for ideas? Now? That tells me that none of you hutch employees even read what community thinks and writes. This was disscussed numerous times in last year. Many ideas were written and every single one was better than this overfilling **** we have now. 

    You are asking yourself why this forum is dying and there is only bashing left? Thats exactly why.
    Couldnt agree more, its a farce

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