Skip to content

Criteria

SystemSystem Posts: 15 admin
This discussion was created from comments split from: Fantastic Four - USA Tour (Event).

Comments

  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Recently, it feels like the creativity with events has disappeared. We've basically had USA events the whole past week. 
    Very little creativity in the tracksets too, always seem to be a re-hash rather than anything interesting or different. 

    I’d love to see a month of events like the old days as a one off. 
    5x common
    5x uncommon
    5x ...you get it... 
    then 70s, 80s, 90s etc

    i’d also like to see some higher RQ limits. All this RQ270 stuff just gets tedious 
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 940 admin
    A good time to have a conversation about criteria.

    I would argue that a 5x US, 5x 4-Seater is one of the more creative events in recent times. By this I mean:
    - it's a relatively new criteria we're using
    - it contains a lot of models, so it doesn't feel prohibitive
    - it's a combination of criteria never before run

    This is a first run event. My stance is if there is a problem with this kind of criteria - I'm not sure what combinations of in-game parameters are left that would feel interesting.

    I could run 5x Common, 5x Uncommon, 5x 70s, 5x 80s, 5x 90s. But those are far more similar to events in the past, the hands that are run will be higher RQ, more fully fused, more optimised. Within a single event there will be less ability to improve over the course of the event. And plainly speaking... by any judgement I would make, I don't know by what judgement a 5x US/5x 4-Seater event is less creative than a 5x 80s event.

  • TD42792TD42792 Posts: 2,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A good time to have a conversation about criteria.

    I would argue that a 5x US, 5x 4-Seater is one of the more creative events in recent times. By this I mean:
    - it's a relatively new criteria we're using
    - it contains a lot of models, so it doesn't feel prohibitive
    - it's a combination of criteria never before run

    This is a first run event. My stance is if there is a problem with this kind of criteria - I'm not sure what combinations of in-game parameters are left that would feel interesting.

    I could run 5x Common, 5x Uncommon, 5x 70s, 5x 80s, 5x 90s. But those are far more similar to events in the past, the hands that are run will be higher RQ, more fully fused, more optimised. Within a single event there will be less ability to improve over the course of the event. And plainly speaking... by any judgement I would make, I don't know by what judgement a 5x US/5x 4-Seater event is less creative than a 5x 80s event.

    How about some funky criteria, like less than 800kg, or 5x high ride height, or all stock cars, all red cars, etc.?
  • D3nzelloD3nzello Posts: 126 ✭✭✭
    edited October 1
    - it's a relatively new criteria we're using
    - it contains a lot of models, so it doesn't feel prohibitive
    agree on the criteria point, it is something new at least and glad to see you put some thoughts into it.

    the second point not so much, I mean basically everyone and their mom is running with the "best possible" hand and you see the same cars all over the place like the camaro Z/28, caddilac ELR, challenger GT AWD, dodge stealth R/T, mustang GT convertible and 1 or 2 different ones...if you want to make it less prohibitive you should alter the tracksets to cover a wider range...why not one snow rainy, one dirt hill climb, one gravel speed bump, etc etc. somewhere inbetween?
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 940 admin
    TD42792 said:
    How about some funky criteria, like less than 800kg, or 5x high ride height, or all stock cars, all red cars, etc.?
    We don't have support for any of those criteria. So that would be feature development.

    I have said that we are working on a flexible criteria feature, even that only allows High Ride Height. But let's dive in, I'm not against an event like that, but my initial thought is "isn't that just an All Surface tyre event?", but the answer is it's a bit wider than that. So it's not a bad idea at all!

    The next one "<800kg", it's tough because it changes for cars as they upgrade, so requires a more dynamic system. Maybe there's some use there "cars over 90 handling", and challenges based on fuse numbers. One idea to think about is "what does it mean to require cars of a specality", and the answer might be "oh, it's the worst part of many events, as all the insane specialists are against one another". It might work better as a challenge criteria than an event criteria. I ideally want to create criteria that inspire new combinations, and anything that contains the Superlight R500 is another time for that to shine and makes me shudder a little, but it may work! (if we did the feature work to support it)

    All Stock discourgages upgrading. We generally want to encourage upgrading. Probably won't see this.

    All Red cars. People have suggested this more since we introduced our temporary seasonal collections. Requires a few hours of rating all the cars with a colour, so it's not likely to happen soon as it's not a priority. Good to know that players are open to criteria like this though.
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Robin could you think about running a sort of ‘old school’ month where we get TBT each week as pre70, 70s, 80s, 90s then at least 1 ceramic event a week that’s 5x common / uncommon etc? Ideally with no other restrictions and/or RQ limits? 

    It would be great to see how the newer cars stack up against the past masters. Particularly on the newer tracks like Nurburgring & mountain etc. If people complain that it’s boring you can always blame me 👍
  • Yama_sanYama_san Posts: 348 ✭✭✭
    edited October 1
    TD42792 said:
    How about some funky criteria, like less than 800kg, or 5x high ride height, or all stock cars, all red cars, etc.?
    (...)

    How about already existing tags never being used, there are many of them, like Wild ride, Eco-friendly, Concept-car, Innovative, Ultra expensive, etc.

    Worst case if some categories would not have enough cars, you can always try to combine 2 tags.

    Or you could also see to add more cars in those categories. For example, since I started the game I was making sure to keep enough of Eco-friendly cars, but in the end this tag is totally useless.
  • nathanwindnathanwind Posts: 361 ✭✭✭
    edited October 1
    I saw eco friendly popped up in clubs yesterday quite extensively. I don't recall it ever appearing as an event though.

    I enjoyed the titanium final which mixed great exhibition and Italian renaissance. Something with quite a high RQ and a mix of tracks similar to this would be fun. 
  • Hutch_RobinHutch_Robin Posts: 940 admin
    edited October 1
    BoxtaS, I'm not yet convinced. I would struggle to push that event without some bonus points to increase players' winrate! It's not a bad pitch from you though.

    Tags weren't made for events. They've just evolved into that. That's why lots of tags aren't fit for events! There is more work to do here. I will consider it a future opportunity. However, many tags likely won't expand to the 100-200 I find is has the sweet spot for interesting events vs. players being able to enter.

    I would encourage you to think about opportunity vs. interesting events. Let's say we blue booked all cars in the game and tagged the 60 most expensive cars in the world - in addition to the current 42. Now we have a viable collection, people can enter, we can offer packs, all sounds great. Except... look at the cars already tagged in this way. It's all of the crazy good cars (of course it is!), Chirons, 918 Spyder. In current events, the Spyder dominates in German events, Convertible events, 2 Seater Events. So I have to be judicious in those events.

    It looks so innocent. A 4WD Storm event, then a Convertible Countryside event, then a Room For 2 Event, then a Mercedes event that is 4x Mercedes, 5x German. That looks like diversity in events, but they might end up telling very similar stories. Or in other words, they are like very similar crosswords with clues and answers that feel very similar to one another in a short time.

    Sometimes it's easier to have three US events in a row, where I can design them all at once, and ensure they have different 'metas'. Explicitly we did a 5+ Seat US event then a 4 Seat US event. For top players, those are entirely different cars involved...even though it seems familiar.

    So the balance is making events feel novel...and play novelly. That balance is tricky. I've designed over 1,200 events to date, and I haven't solved this yet. Sometimes there is a theme like the weekend of wet events that emerges, and I lean into it, making it a little event with free packs. That feels like that weekend will be more memorable than most standard weekends.

    At the moment, it takes extra work as we have to create packs in a client release and get it localised. This is being overhauled, too, so we can be more dynamic with going from 'idea' to 'live'.

    Tags also tend to struggle because they're not subsets (or are too small to contain their own subsets). The model of 5x big group, <5 smaller group works quite well. The new criteria system will allow combining. Play 5 cards from either Eco Friendly or Concept, for example.

    I'll break this off into its own thread.
    Post edited by Hutch_Robin on
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Hutch_Robin is “1.5x points for cars less than X RQ” possible? Could have 5x rare with bonus points for picking out the top performing RQ30s etc 
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Would it be possible to go old school and have events with No Tags x5?
  • BoxtaSBoxtaS Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hutch_Robin can we start seeing a better balance of low rq vs high rq events? Recently it feels like for every 10 low rq events (280-300) we only get one high rq event (480). Both are good, but a bit more balance would be nice. One low rq, and then one high rq.
    I wish I could click agree more times ^

  • mckennzmckennz Posts: 75 ✭✭
    edited October 1
    I wasn’t interested in winning the Viper prize car recently. Except........ there are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many 5x USA events

    id rather eat spaghetti than see another 5x USA event, don’t care about tracksets and conditions.
    this 5x USA garbage has to stop
    Post edited by Hutch_Gsearch on
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mckennz said:
    I wasn’t interested in winning the Viper prize car recently. Except........ there are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many 5x USA events

    id rather kill myself than see another 5x USA event, don’t care about tracksets and conditions.
    this 5x USA garbage has to stop
    Haven't these recent US events excluded the Viper (due to seat count) or had an RQ limit too low to use it? 
  • greddygreddy Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 1
    Whats your best five cars? They need to run those requirements than.
  • mckennzmckennz Posts: 75 ✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    mckennz said:
    I wasn’t interested in winning the Viper prize car recently. Except........ there are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many 5x USA events

    id rather kill myself than see another 5x USA event, don’t care about tracksets and conditions.
    this 5x USA garbage has to stop
    Haven't these recent US events excluded the Viper (due to seat count) or had an RQ limit too low to use it? 
    Like half the club events have the same parameters too.
    i just want something take besides the constant barrage of USA 
  • HeissRodHeissRod Posts: 7,448 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ah, I forget about clubs when talking criteria  :D
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HeissRod said:
    Ah, I forget about clubs when talking criteria  :D
    I deliberately forget about clubs in general lol
  • Dr_XDr_X Posts: 14
    For me the problem with the 5x US, 5x 4-Seater was, as others have said, the fact that several key cars like the 2 standard tyre Cadillacs are owned by most serious players. they are well known as good rain cars so the hands were quite samey. one slight tweak I think would have made the event so much more interesting. That tweak is to have made it 4xUS and 5x 4-Seater. Suddenly people have to work out their best wildcard. This would have brought into play epic VWs that people might have just tuned for the finals last weekend for a wet stage or a Ruf to use on the drags.     

    And when it comes to new events we usually see the filters as being for inclusion but what if we used the first criteria for inclusion to for a subset and the second criteria to create exclusions to stop a dominant car in an event. So for example 5x French, no Bugatti; 5x 1970s no German or 5x 4WD no off road tyres. I am sure you get the idea. This then means that you do not have to design track selection to nullify a given car and you can give life to more manufacturers in an event by taking out a dominant one.  
  • David_FookDavid_Fook Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3
    @Hutch_Robin I’m surprised you don’t put more of an effort to stop meta cars being dominant in most events. Maybe a performance tyre x5 requirement could help? It could stop bananas and deltas dominating hatchback events, slick Porsches in anything German/coupe/rwd etc. 

    It’s kinda related to the fact that in the game all race cars have standard body styles (is the 962 really a coupe?!). Some creativity here could help us use more of our garage
Sign In or Register to comment.