General Discussion

Porsche off-road event series - DEBRIEF!

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Comments

  • ppedrasppedras Member Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    I think Hutch did well opening this thread. I finished 1st because I had the luck of owning 2SUV and during the event got a 3rd. Yes I was lucky! But thinking about the first Porsche event that was luck depending also, if you only got bad Porsche’s then the final was also bad, and if you only opened the free packs then it was really bad, right? 

    Not all all was perfect and I agree a bit more time could have helped. But, for example @ZotZe and many others got their GT1 without a single SUV, proving that you only needed good strategy and of course a bit of luck.

    As for the matchmaking system I still cant understand why it doesn’t work in a simpler way. For example, 10 players above and 10 behind, from those the system picked always 6. If you choose to race someone above, more points would be granted (just like now). 
  • TGPDTGPD Member Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be honest, it's brave that a game maker would stand out and admit such mistakes, we wish you could learn from the mistakes. I always have been not that extreme in terms of criticism, but I do think that this event has gone a bit too far, with the current game mechanics and such. Anyways, we appreciate you, and that's why people keep pumping money in, good work!
  • daGmandaGman Member Posts: 934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Let me put it this way. Since the inception of Top Drives there have always been some limitations on every event outside the daily event. Nobody has every seriously complained about that model as far as I’ve seen. This mean that Hutch have been telling everybody what cars they can use for each event. This is often combined with picking tracks to suit certain vehicle types. RQ Limits allow this to be turned on its head. Some events, finals included, could be open to all cars and JUST limited by RQ, or with very loose restictions. You decide from your capacious garage what to bring, not Hutch. In other cases the car restriction could be 2x or 3x instead of 5 to avoid Chiron domination of players without them - if the limit is set right bringing in an S class is a decision about hand balance rather than just throwing your top 5 hypercars in. I believe even the top P2W players will appreciate the dimension of strategy this will bring to the game.

    So again I say:
    Try them! Try them! And you may.
    Try them and you may, I say.

    ;)
    I can see where you and @Bugatti are coming from. I definitely agree that I’d like to see rq capped events BUT I think it needs to be implemented when other challenges are going without rq restrictions. I mean if all events start becoming rq capped then there is not as much incentive to “chase” the top cars. 
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    daGman said:
    Let me put it this way. Since the inception of Top Drives there have always been some limitations on every event outside the daily event. Nobody has every seriously complained about that model as far as I’ve seen. This mean that Hutch have been telling everybody what cars they can use for each event. This is often combined with picking tracks to suit certain vehicle types. RQ Limits allow this to be turned on its head. Some events, finals included, could be open to all cars and JUST limited by RQ, or with very loose restictions. You decide from your capacious garage what to bring, not Hutch. In other cases the car restriction could be 2x or 3x instead of 5 to avoid Chiron domination of players without them - if the limit is set right bringing in an S class is a decision about hand balance rather than just throwing your top 5 hypercars in. I believe even the top P2W players will appreciate the dimension of strategy this will bring to the game.

    So again I say:
    Try them! Try them! And you may.
    Try them and you may, I say.

    ;)
    I can see where you and @Bugatti are coming from. I definitely agree that I’d like to see rq capped events BUT I think it needs to be implemented when other challenges are going without rq restrictions. I mean if all events start becoming rq capped then there is not as much incentive to “chase” the top cars. 
    Well said, I don't spend my money chasing cars that collect dust, I could just stop now and be good lol Game Over.
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 619 admin
    FCOK said:
     What i notice is some "bugs" that don't give you a choice (happens a bit ,like only having 1 option to choose from),or like we all seem getting paired with 160th pave while you're in top 10.
    That needs to be fixed
    You're correct, there's a bug with in-event matchmaking. You are supposed to be matched with people around you, but it doesn't always work. This is on our list and is hopefully something we can tackle soon.
  • Hutch_TimHutch_Tim Administrator, Hutch Staff Posts: 619 admin
    tichoblin said:
    1. The overall idea was to prevent winner snowballing
    We knew that if we ran another on-road Porsche event, it was extremely likely that the winners of the first Porsche event would win again. Eventually something like this has to happen (you want to gain some benefit of your prize cars after all), but we figured an event like this would give other players a better chance of winning a good on-road Porsche.
    And after that you make a German road event where GT1 owners have an advantage? Such a bs:)) Hutch you can lie better. Just try at least.
    Like I said, we do actuallywant winners of events to gain at least some benefit from their prizes, otherwise why compete? But we also want to mitigate winners of one major tri-series event (with the best prizes) getting a free pass to win the next major one. It's a difficult balance.
  • AguiarAguiar Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭
    @Delilah i can tell you i won the Porsche and its still useless agains all the R8 and even some class A Porsches and i won the GT40 a while ago and since theres no 60s event its still a useless card to have on the garage.

    @Hutch_Tim there were complains about the event mainly because off the offroad and so few All Porsches. Also a lot of those weight problems bug.
    I do believe the game needs a no Smurf solution like lower TP, lower rewards on events, and TP groups instead of just RQ groups to start getting stronger ppl facing strong and weak having a chance of enjoying every event.
  • daGmandaGman Member Posts: 934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Delilah said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    tichoblin said:
    1. The overall idea was to prevent winner snowballing
    We knew that if we ran another on-road Porsche event, it was extremely likely that the winners of the first Porsche event would win again. Eventually something like this has to happen (you want to gain some benefit of your prize cars after all), but we figured an event like this would give other players a better chance of winning a good on-road Porsche.
    And after that you make a German road event where GT1 owners have an advantage? Such a bs:)) Hutch you can lie better. Just try at least.
    Like I said, we do actuallywant winners of events to gain at least some benefit from their prizes, otherwise why compete? But we also want to mitigate winners of one major tri-series event (with the best prizes) getting a free pass to win the next major one. It's a difficult balance.
    People who win the special cars from specialist events shouldn't be able to then use them in another event of the same kind - gives them to much of an advantage over everyone else - should be a level playing field or as close too.

    Plenty of other events they can use the card they have won in - Daily Events for example
    I disagree. I didn’t win either two of the Porsche events and right now I’m in an event fighting for top 2. Tbh some of those prize cars will get beat by other top epic cars that are upgraded to 2.3. Yes I have spent money on packs so I do have an advantage of other better cars, but the prize cars aren’t that gamebreaking like the pikes peak where it’s impossible to beat them. 
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Delilah said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    tichoblin said:
    1. The overall idea was to prevent winner snowballing
    We knew that if we ran another on-road Porsche event, it was extremely likely that the winners of the first Porsche event would win again. Eventually something like this has to happen (you want to gain some benefit of your prize cars after all), but we figured an event like this would give other players a better chance of winning a good on-road Porsche.
    And after that you make a German road event where GT1 owners have an advantage? Such a bs:)) Hutch you can lie better. Just try at least.
    Like I said, we do actuallywant winners of events to gain at least some benefit from their prizes, otherwise why compete? But we also want to mitigate winners of one major tri-series event (with the best prizes) getting a free pass to win the next major one. It's a difficult balance.
    People who win the special cars from specialist events shouldn't be able to then use them in another event of the same kind - gives them to much of an advantage over everyone else - should be a level playing field or as close too.

    Plenty of other events they can use the card they have won in - Daily Events for example
    Might as well not let me use any of my S cars that i have won from packs either, totally unfair! :o :p o:)
  • tichoblintichoblin Member Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Hutch_Tim said:
    tichoblin said:
    1. The overall idea was to prevent winner snowballing
    We knew that if we ran another on-road Porsche event, it was extremely likely that the winners of the first Porsche event would win again. Eventually something like this has to happen (you want to gain some benefit of your prize cars after all), but we figured an event like this would give other players a better chance of winning a good on-road Porsche.
    And after that you make a German road event where GT1 owners have an advantage? Such a bs:)) Hutch you can lie better. Just try at least.
    Like I said, we do actuallywant winners of events to gain at least some benefit from their prizes, otherwise why compete? But we also want to mitigate winners of one major tri-series event (with the best prizes) getting a free pass to win the next major one. It's a difficult balance.
    In the first Porsche event there also were some off road tracks. So, SUV started dominating not now. In the first event their owners had an advantage. And could get carrera GT easily.
    The reason you made it fully off-road this time is not trying to mitigate carrera GT owners' advantage (come on, this car is lousy one), but strengthening SUV owners' advantage. To make us buy more packs trying to get SUV.
    You've noticed that some of players won without SUV. But how many are such players? 10%? 5%? In my bracket top20 had SUV.
    If you really wanted balance, second tier prize should have been A SUV. That would bring some balance back for future events. But balance is not what you are looking for.
    Post edited by tichoblin on
  • tichoblintichoblin Member Posts: 950 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ppedras said:
    Not all all was perfect and I agree a bit more time could have helped. But, for example @ZotZe and many others got their GT1 without a single SUV, proving that you only needed good strategy and of course a bit of luck.
    A bit?
    My hand was 3 B 4wd and 2 924 turbo. Probably the best hand you can use without SUV and S/A 4wd. All maxed correctly. I had no chance for top8, staying 100-150 points below them instantly.
    While my road porsches are gathering dust, cause they are useless.
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Member Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    My hand was a c class 924 turbo. 3x911 2.7s d-class's and 1 b class 911 4wd with performance tyres. I still managed 7th without an off roader. 
  • grandvachegrandvache Member Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My hand was a c class 924 turbo. 3x911 2.7s d-class's and 1 b class 911 4wd with performance tyres. I still managed 7th without an off roader. 
    Nice! Nevertheless your experience didn't match many other people. I had essentially the same hand (minus the 911 4wd) and came in 80 something, in my group your hand would have got you third tier MAX.  

    Some of that is luck of the draw, what we don't know is where you and I fall on the bell curve ... If you're extreme good luck and I'm extreme bad luck I guess that's ok, it implies a full hand of standard cars would have got most people second or third tier, which I think it's reasonable. 

    Your mileage may of course vary on that one, but I would have been very happy with third tier and a high end red given my hand.
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Member Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    I can' remember what position 3rd tier was but that's probably where I would have ended up without the 4wd 911. That being said I did see other groups that had people with 1 and sometimes 2 all terrain porsches struggle to get top 8 so you're probably right in saying I was lucky there. But now even with my gt1 prize car I'm still in the bottom 3rd in this autobahn race series. My point was more aimed at a few people who said that if you don't have at least 1or more all terrain porsches then you're gonna struggle to get even 2nd tier.
  • MettitiMettiti Member Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Delilah said:
    Hutch_Tim said:
    tichoblin said:
    1. The overall idea was to prevent winner snowballing
    We knew that if we ran another on-road Porsche event, it was extremely likely that the winners of the first Porsche event would win again. Eventually something like this has to happen (you want to gain some benefit of your prize cars after all), but we figured an event like this would give other players a better chance of winning a good on-road Porsche.
    And after that you make a German road event where GT1 owners have an advantage? Such a bs:)) Hutch you can lie better. Just try at least.
    Like I said, we do actuallywant winners of events to gain at least some benefit from their prizes, otherwise why compete? But we also want to mitigate winners of one major tri-series event (with the best prizes) getting a free pass to win the next major one. It's a difficult balance.
    People who win the special cars from specialist events shouldn't be able to then use them in another event of the same kind - gives them to much of an advantage over everyone else - should be a level playing field or as close too.

    Plenty of other events they can use the card they have won in - Daily Events for example
    I want to be able to sell it for 2x or 3x the price ....
  • STRV103BSTRV103B Member Posts: 339 ✭✭✭
    If there wasn’t the mistake about the reset drama, this event is designed reasonably good
  • ritter_seboritter_sebo Member Posts: 372 ✭✭✭
    My hand was a c class 924 turbo. 3x911 2.7s d-class's and 1 b class 911 4wd with performance tyres. I still managed 7th without an off roader. 
    and exactly thats a problem too.
    In the group where I was, to get the GT1 you need to have aleast 500 pts.
    I've other groups where +250 pts were enough.
    It simply depends on the luck of your matchmaking. And for me it dents do group my up in mostly high competitive groups, where the first price bracket gets extremly hard to win. In my group in top 20 there was no one without min. 1 SUV.
  • MikeManNZMikeManNZ Member Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    One of the ways you can fix this IMHO is to mix up the tracks a little.

    So we have 4 track sets in a comp how about something like this.

    Set 1
    City Streets (with bumps) - Dry
    Twisty road - Dry Gravel
    1/2 mile drag - Snow
    Fast Circuit - Wet
    Slalom - Dry

    Set 2 
    Hill climb - Gravel Wet
    Slalom - Snow
    1/4 Mile Drag - Snow
    G Force - Wet
    Twisty Circuit - Dry

    Set 3
    G Force - Gravel Wet
    Twisty Circuit - Snow
    Slalom - Wet
    City Streets (with Bumps) - Wet
    1/2 Mile Drag - Dry

    Set 4
    Hill Climb - Dry Dirt
    Car Park - Wet
    Ice Lake
    Fast Circuit - Wet
    G Force - Dry

    No single type track sets and enough variation that variety will be important BUT a strong hand in a couple of areas can take a win.


     




  • MikeManNZMikeManNZ Member Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    My hand was a c class 924 turbo. 3x911 2.7s d-class's and 1 b class 911 4wd with performance tyres. I still managed 7th without an off roader. 
    Mine was 2 x S 4WD Perfoirmance, a Macan GTS, the A class Targa 4S and a D Class and I finished 9th, 150ish points behind 8th. 
  • TD42792TD42792 Member Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MikeManNZ said:
    My hand was a c class 924 turbo. 3x911 2.7s d-class's and 1 b class 911 4wd with performance tyres. I still managed 7th without an off roader. 
    Mine was 2 x S 4WD Perfoirmance, a Macan GTS, the A class Targa 4S and a D Class and I finished 9th, 150ish points behind 8th. 
    In mine, top 10 had 4wd porsches, I could occasionally sneak into top 8 but instantly got pushed back to 11-12. Tried spending a few tickets in the end but it did not work. I probably had the best no-4wd hand and it just could not compete. I would be interested to know how the groups are defined? Does smurfing help?
  • NumarNumar Member Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Officially not but in fact it should as 99% of the players are doing it...
  • BruceMcLarenBruceMcLaren Member Posts: 40 ✭✭
    rq limit is bad i think... i like, when i see same chances for all
  • aleale Member Posts: 79 ✭✭
    Hutch_Tim said:

    - Winners of previous event get their own bracket in the next? There aren't enough winners of a previous event to fill up leaderboards in a follow-up event. And exactly which events would it apply to?

    A tutti gli eventi... per me pure agli eventi giornalieri.
    Alla fine vincono quasi sempre le stesse persone che poi ogni tanto si abbassano i punteggi dei trofei.
    Non è il giusto modo di fare matchmaking.
    E' giusto che chi vince sia messo insieme ai suoi pari.
  • HeissRodHeissRod Member Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Pshhh.....in my bracket, the top place finisher has 5 Porsche SUVs.  The top runner ups had 2 SUVs, some 4wds, and a 911S. 

    I managed to place 10th with 1 SUV (the worst one), a 4wd 911 turbo (the worst S-class one), a 924 Turbo, and two 911S.
  • bobdylanbobdylan Member Posts: 3,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Anyway long story short we are all getting a ceramic for the fuss
  • lemmings99olemmings99o Member Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't know how much difference smurfing made to the event. My trophy count was around 1600 at the start of the event but I was matched with players anywhere from 0-7000. My rq was 143 i think when it started. 
  • PlantedZebraPlantedZebra Member Posts: 423 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    to the 1st point...
    Implement a matchmaking system that considers this point into account.
    Only fill up a bracket with the winners of the first events and so on.
    So that the strong always need to compete against strong players. And cannot easily win the events.
    The main problem of the 1st point was the matchmaking, that does not consider the possible hands into account.
    Your matchmaking seams to be based on the trophy counter, but not for the finales. So its also alot more worse than in the really bad daily situation.

    And rest I see it exactly the same. To much loot luck involved with nealry zero skill.
    If you have 2 porsche offroaders and one normal 4x4 you were safe in the top 8. Nearly no matter what you do.
    And if you see a offroader on the twisted roads, you were almost done, if you don't have one too. Or the opponent didn't race with a 2wd against your 4x4 in a drag race. This was you only chance in winning such a fight.
    "Fill up the brackets with event winners of the first round", that almost sounds literally the same thing as "Putting all the spenders in the same bracket", and oh believe me, these spenders wouldn't want that to happen, they will do whatever it takes to disagree your post to show their hate on you and disagreement on your suggestion. I tried.

    Well tbh I might be exaggerating but yeah that's sorta what happened to me last time when I asked if the P2W could be moved away so they can leave F2P alone. Yeah...
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