General Discussion

Lighter Weight = Worse offroad traction?

PlantedZebraPlantedZebra Member Posts: 422 ✭✭✭
I have faced against a guy in Audi Challenge, and the first round is Gravel 1 Mile Drag, and he used an MP4-12C that has 1.3 Engine, Maxed Weight & 2.3 Chassis. While mine only got all three upgrades on 1.3.
And on halfway the course my MP4-12C started pulling away from his car. And I won with bunch of question marks on my head.

Another question. I remember when MP4-12C first came out in games it was called "MP4-12C", and nowadays almost all games' McLarens are 650Ss, P1s etc. And the remaining games that still have this car all renamed the car to "12C". Anyone knows why?

Comments

  • MikeManNZMikeManNZ Member Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    Less weight = Less traction
    Less Weight = Higher Torque to Weight Ratio

    So less mechanical traction to try and harness a higher torque to weight ration = slower.
  • PlantedZebraPlantedZebra Member Posts: 422 ✭✭✭
    Okay, that's a interesting thing to know that this mechanic exists in this game! I know it exists in the drag racing games like CSR, but it exists here too? Wow!
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,448 admin
    @Burtreltub ; It is not that cut and dry.  There are so many variables and suspension is one of them.  We do not know what the upgrade is to the suspension of these cars in the game.  Also, there is an advantage to the higher friction caused by higher weight.  consider all the race cars that use downdraft bodywork.  This is to create more friction for the tires on the surface increasing traction.  Downdraft is used to simulate the effects of weight.  I am not saying you are wrong, please don't think that.   In most cases the lighter weight/loss of friction will win over added weight and more friction.  Straight line vs cornering as well as surface will add variables to this.  Gravel?  I think it's a "who knows" type of situation.

  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,448 admin
    In the gravel, I have to believe that the lighter car would not sink into the surface as much, but does that mean that it would be less or more traction?
  • BurtreltubBurtreltub Member Posts: 9
    Gsearch- Yes there are many many factors at play here, but we are comparing 2 literally identical, electronic, artificially perfect cars with the only change being less weight.  Even in the real world, name a car that has added weight to make it "faster".

    Also see the above edit in reference to downforce.  
  • GsearchGsearch Member, Administrator, Wrenchmen, Senior Wrenchmen Posts: 2,448 admin
    edited November 2017
    Again, Gravel is the unknown factor.  I do not know how a heavier vs lighter car would perform, even otherwise identical, in gravel.  I have been in a gravel trap off the side of the track a few times and I don't know if a fat guy could move better than a skinny guy in that garbage.
  • Elias_HuberElias_Huber Member Posts: 203 ✭✭✭
    This discussion is driving me cray...
    Belive it or not - it is just an error in the game physics.
    Nothing to do with real world.
    And i can just repeat i hope they are gonna fix this ASAP.
  • LitanyA1606LitanyA1606 Member Posts: 18
    I think heavier car have better traction when accelerating but worse traction when braking or turn and for lighter car the exact opposite worse traction in acceleration and better traction when braking or turning.actually this would to difficult, we don't know with which parameters this game count and actually you can bring up hundreds if this would be real and not in a game, but weight is actually one of the last factors who influence traction,even tyres play a bigger role, and are the RWD and FWD cars calculated in this game if you race against with it and someone other, in a surface who is made for 4WD actually,who win? how we know if they have used any laws from the real world gravity,FWD and RWD on snow or gravel surface,but I don't know more about cars than you guys so I actually can't say much how in real and compared how it should be in this game
  • S4gr4TS4gr4T Member Posts: 121 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    Just look at this.
    Dry Asphalt > Hairpinroad
    Chiron 2.3,3.3,2,3 vs. Chiron 1.3,1.3,1.3

    That is a big LOL.
  • PichaiPichai Member Posts: 212 ✭✭✭
    The old "Better Mid-Range Acceleration" has gotten many of us. 
  • HuacanachaHuacanacha Member Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2017
    I've seen cars just with upgrade engine lose city dry city street races, and cars with just upgraded handling lose slalom races, against their stock 1.3 tuned brethren.

    It really is a vehicle physics twilight zone in this game.
  • evilmage34evilmage34 Member Posts: 124 ✭✭✭
    From a physics standpoint there are times when extra weight would be beneficial to acceleration but as difficult as it is to ELI5 (explain like I’m 5) it would be even more difficult to code into a game engine for multiple devices with potentially limited memory and processing power.  Maybe they tried and miscalculated.
  • Turd_FergusonTurd_Ferguson Member Posts: 8
    Why are they charging money for cars that don't work right, and unfinished physics that favor lesser cars EVEN IN THE DRY. I grinded and grinded to finally modify a super and i get beat by stock. These clowns are charging money for broken, unfinished product. You theives owe me 12$
  • BugattiBugatti Member Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In real world lighter is better offroad YES lol I can simply testify my jeep wrangler rock crawler stomps all over a heavy hummer all day long off road lol
  • GT47LMGT47LM Member Posts: 372 ✭✭✭
    Guys, rally cars are extremely light for how much power and equipment they have inside the car, and they race on dirt and snow the entire time. Why do you think they don't race in cars that weigh 2000 pounds more? Because it'll handle extremely worse. Everyone is over thinking this lol
  • MettitiMettiti Member Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have a hard time believing this to be true in real life physics.  A heavier object attempting to change direction creates more lateral force than a lighter object.  This means that the same tire is responsible for holding a heavier load (laterally).  Having a lighter car means the tire has less "work" to do and thus can hold the force better. 
    Light weight scenario 1: You driving a car with no passengers can take a particular corner at 80mph before the tires lose traction and begin to slide
    Heavier scenario: You driving the exact same car, now with a 250lb passenger, at the same corner can only hold 77 mph before the tires lose traction and begin to slide.  

    -Basically you've pushed the tires laterally with more force than before, which means they have less ability to maintain traction. 

    Look at any track prepped car, an intelligent owner NEVER adds weight overall.  Removing weight allows for faster acceleration, faster braking, and more lateral force (I.e. Higher speed reached before slippage).  

    The only consideration really applicable for a lighter weight car is one that is SO light that it doesn't have enough friction to warm up performance/racing tires. In which case changing the tire width to a narrower size would allow more heat to be held in the tire.  


    Edit: If we want to confront the impending question of "what about downforce? Race cars have lots of downforce and that "adds weight" to make them go faster!"  The difference with downforce is, the wings and splitters and other black magic devices push straight down parallel with the ground.  They are "adding weight" in a sense, but are acting to push the tire harder straight down into the pavement which adds to their ultimate grip threshold.  The difference with adding weight in or on the car itself is that when the car is in motion that weight is subject the all the physics that threaten to move the car left, right, up, or down.  Think about a Formula 1 car: extremely light weight but with huge amounts of downforce.  So the weight of the car that threatens to hinder performance is counteracted by huge amounts of weight pushing the car straight down into the road surface to allow for higher cornering speeds. 728kg (without fuel) and 800ish horsepower and they perform incredibly well in every way.   
    Now I understand why group B cars were so slow... No wait. They went fast as hell ....cmon hutch this makes no sense
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